Open Thread Wednesday

Yes. I saw your response. Of course it’s not about basketball. It’s about hoods who are attracted to the courts (whether they play there or not). How else can you explain the problem at Pier 2 versus every other pier?
And please don’t give me long term solutions right now. This is about a major problem happening right now that needs to be dealt with right now.,

Pier 2 is sheltered–the only real shelter in the park right now. Within the park it’s centrally located. It’s huge. It has water and toilet facilities. I would guess that these characteristics, not the basketball courts (there are only, what, five full courts?) are what draw large crowds of people not necessarily there to make use of the facilities.

You want short term, smaller picture solutions? The kind of police response we saw tonight is as short term, small picture as you can get.

You know what, SB? I think you really believe what you’re saying and I have to say, I think it’s commendable. But, i also think it’s really wrong. I mean, “water and toilet facilities”!?! Not to make fun, but have you ever played basketball at a public park or competitive street ball anywhere? Let me tell you what’s going on: disadvantaged youth are attracted to the b-ball court, most just to play, but a few to cause trouble. When things get hot on the court (a hard foul or someone is disrespected), the troublemakers take over.
And in regards to your “punish the hoods” reply, that is reactionary and not proactive.
There are plenty of basketball courts all around downtown Brooklyn and other areas. Why do we need so many at the BBP?

Wrong. And please don’t come after the police on this one. The last two times they had to do something at pier two, there was a shooting and planned brawls where people were knocked senseless.
And what is the “collective punishment”? Taking away a few basketball courts??? There are basketball courts all over the city. Including some very nearby in downtown Brooklyn. Do you think that any player is going to miss a single game of basketball if we change the layout of pier 2? C’mon, SB. What about people being afraid to go to the park because they’re afraid pier 2 is going to get shut down again, or a shooting, or planned brawls??? How about OUR collective punishment?

Now you’re giving slippery slope arguments (destroy the pier), which is fine by me because I know you’re intelligent and have to see it. Moreover, we both know there are MANY other activities that can replace the courts (and what’s wrong with hopscotch?).
At the very least, you are correct that I’m not sure if my solutions will work. I’m not sure, but the problem with the courts is staring us right in the face and something needs to be done about it.
In regards to me calling you “wrong”, I’m pretty sure I did prove your assertion wrong, unless you can explain to me how ANYONE is going to miss a game of basketball in NYC if the courts are lessened. But that’s neither here nor there. I’m not trying to “prove you wrong” and I apologize for the curtness of the whole thing.
Look, aren’t you afraid that your family would have been taking a walk around the pier 2 when the brawls or the shooting happened? I am. And I know a lot of other people are, too. Why can’t you accept that some poor youth who have been screwed by the system are now products of that system and cause problems at the basketball courts? Why is that such a hard concept? It’s not a racist concept. It’s a factual concept that is a damn shame. But why should the entire park and Brooklyn heights have to suffer because of it.

You call me weak minded and then imply I’m racist. You’re a real jerk, Arch.
Do you have a solution, Arch?
There are so many different people of color that use the park without issue. I have no problem with them. I am for equality. I am not for crime or good people being scared to use the park. Are you? Or are you just going to take pot shots at people from the sideline?
And once again, we’re not depriving anyone of recreation space, or even basketball. We’d just be limiting the courts to two courts and using the other space for something else.
How is this a bad idea?
Or else we simply get a lot more police down there and on Joralemon. Either way, something must be done.

Please remember, I didn’t say that we should get rid of the courts, only that we should limit the BBP to two b-ball courts.
Also, I didn’t take your slippery slope argument as hostile. But it’s like many other slippery slope arguments, when people say they’re “taking it to a logical conclusion”, they’re doing the exact opposite. It’s like me saying “I need gas for my car,” and then someone coming in to argue and say “well if you really need gas for your car, you shouldn’t just fill up the tank, you need to keep filling up a bunch of extra tanks and put them on the roof and in the passenger seats until you never run out of gas again.” That’s NOT a logical conclusion; it’s ridiculous and unhealthy for civil discourse.
And in regards to our “marriage”, I think we’re in pretty good shape. You finally came around to see we need more police (even if it is a band-aid, which I always agreed with) and I’m happy that you’re keeping the kids safe on their scooters as well as not stalking KR at the pierrepont park, anymore.
Thanks for the civil discourse. Be well.

It is about rival gangs and beefs. They play there because there are a lot of courts and it is an amazing place to hang out.

Yes, that’s what it was. Saw on a run down at Pier 2 around 6am. St. Francis graduation.

See Michelle’s comment from the last blog post about the pier being evacuated. Scary stuff.

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Michelle
14 days ago
On Monday evening, my friend and I witnessed a young man being jumped and beaten senseless by a group of kids near the picnic area by the Joralemon street entrance. We (and many others) called 911. After the police arrived and we continued on our way we noticed the basketball pier was closed. We asked a BBP employee why and they said it had gotten too crowded and fights were breaking out. So instead of monitoring the crowds as they left the pier, they just moved the crowds to other areas of the park, where the fights continued and a young man was terribly beaten. The park really needs to reconsider security.”

At least we’re not in Dicken’s England where asking for some more might get you hanged. Maybe if the CEO’s compensation was a bit less than the $18,000,000 reported you might have a better case.

Oh, really?

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/35912-this-strike-needs-to-be-a-line-in-the-sand

Well, you read it like a jerk. And, ironically (but par for the course on this blog), you told me to be careful how I write, but you spelled careful like this: “carful”. You actually have to defy the autocorrect to do such a thing, unless you’re on a 1980’s atari typewriter… You can’t make this stuff up.
Either way, after you called me weak-minded and implied I’m a racist, i’m willing to put that aside, because let’s face it, i could be Donald Trump, or a dog, or Shania Twain… So, I actually like your ID requirement. However, the man power to a) check ID’s, b) give a time limit, and c) enforce all of the above, sounds somewhat expensive.
As I’ve said before, there are tons of b-ball courts around NYC, there’s no reason for more than two at BBP. Nevertheless, there has to be MORE police presence at the BBP and on Joralemon, NOW!

Ok I’m not gonna go in-depth with this stuff, as I said, agree to disagree, and I think we’re on the same page, big picture.

But I’m racking my brain: who is KR?!

I was walking through the park at 7 am when the music was blasting and the security for the event said that the police had been there and that the event had a permit to make that amount of noise at that hour, and that it was necessary as a sound-check. The latter claim seemed dubious, given the length, volume, and frequency of the music.