Here’s Why Your Brooklyn Heights 5 Year Old Might Be Turned Away From P.S. 8 This Fall

By on March 30, 2015 9:52 pm in Brooklyn Heights, Kids, Parents, schools

The parent grapevine is on fire.  Brooklyn Heights parents in District 13 with children born in 2010 and expecting their kids to have a seat at P.S. 8 in the fall were left anxious, angry and confused after this reporter learned there will be 5 Kindergarten classes next year instead of the current 6.  For those following the narrative of the overcrowding issue at P.S. 8, this announcement came as a surprise. And not the good kind.

In November 2013, P.S. 8 cut their Pre-K classes to make room for a sixth K class. At the P.S. 8 PTA Town Hall in November of last year, concerned parents were promised transparency from the DOE but no short-term solutions were presented. The meeting was contentious for many.

NYS Sen. Daniel Squadron address the November PS 8 Town Hall.

In late January the DOE held a special information session on Kindergarten Admission. The Q&A session of this gathering quickly turned to  parents re-raising questions asked at the November Town Hall meeting.  Then earlier this week the DOE served the community the feared cut in the number of Kindergarten classes.

Sources claim this decision was made without the knowledge of neighborhood advocates, NYC Councilmember Steve Levin and NY State Senator Daniel Squadron. Daniel Squadron made the following statement, “My colleagues and I raised the flag with the community about overcrowding at PS 8 months ago. We have been clear that turning away families this year is unacceptable. We must also ensure that our kids have adequate, quality learning space in PS 8 next year and for years to come. We will continue to push DOE for substantive engagement and a solution that ensures our eligible 5 and 6-year-old students have a seat at P.S. 8.”

Council Member, Steve Levin commented, “I have been working with PS 8 parents, the PTA, the principal and other local elected officials for some time to urge DOE to take the issue of overcrowding at PS 8 seriously and come forward with solutions that are sensitive to the needs of prospective zoned families and the PS 8 community as a whole. It’s time for the DOE to consider all available options and move to ensure that every child zoned for PS 8 has the chance to receive a quality education in our public schools.”

What does this mean for parents and children hoping to attend a safe, good school in their own neighborhood?

  • There are currently 207 applications for in-zone ascending Kindergarten students.
  • The maximum Kindergarten class size dictated by UFT contract is 25.  Five classes of 25 creates 125 available Kindergarten seats.  This leaves as many as 80 plus zoned students wait-listed or assigned to other schools in the district.
  • Utilizing last year’s rate of attrition, the P.S. 8 wait list could be reduced to just under 30 children. (Just under 30 children? Sounds close to 25 which would be a 6th class. Hmm. Sounds like we just bought DOE and CEC another year to actually have a PLAN.- ed.)
  • Notification letters will be sent the first week of April.
  • Placement at P.S. 8 is awarded via a random lottery determined by the DOE. There is no priority given based on proximity to P.S. 8.
  • Positions on the wait-list are also determined by DOE lottery.
  • Those not offered a seat at P.S. 8 will be given an alternate placement at another District  13 school. This placement, space permitting may be influenced by parents’ ranking of alternate schools on their applications.  However, if a parent has not indicated a back up choice or the DOE is unable to place the student at one of the alternate choices, the DOE will make the placement themselves.
  • The P.S. 8 Administration was not advised as to which schools are able to accommodate the excess students.
  • No over-age children will be admitted to Kindergarten at P. S. 8. Meaning, no red-shirting.
  • Addresses will be verified when families register their child in person at P.S. 8. Surprise home visits have been conducted in the past and may be conducted again this year.
  • Those families who have already made plans to move out of the neighborhood or send their child to private or charter schools must wait until the notification letters have been received to withdraw their application to P.S. 8.


In a recent development, some well informed parents have hinted the DOE could potentially reverse its decision with enough community pressure.  To voice your opinion, contact any of the DOE representatives and our elected officials:

District 13 CEC President, David Goldsmith dgoldsm100@gmail.com

PS8 Principal, Seth Phillips: sphilli@schools.nyc.gov (718) 834-6740

PS8 Parent Coordinator Leanne Mehno: LMehno@schools.nyc.gov (718) 834-6740, ex. 1061

District 13 Family Advocate: Precious Jones-Walker (718) 636-3284

DOE Chief of Space Management Group, Thomas Taratko: TTaratk@schools.nyc.gov

Superintendent Barbara Freeman: bfreeman6@schools.nyc.gov (718) 636-3284

Steven Levin: slevin@council.nyc.gov (718) 875-5200 (Ask for Casey Adams)

Daniel Squadron: squadron@nysenate.gov (718) 875-1517
Zeeshan Ott: Ott@nysenate.gov

Jo Anne Simon: simonj@assembly.state.ny.us (718) 246-4889
Ptahra Jeppe: jeppep@assembly.state.ny.us

DISCLOSURE: Both the author of the article and the publisher of Brooklyn Heights Blog have children born in 2010 who have applied to P.S. 8 K in the Fall.

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  • BHMommy

    Can’t wait for the families that live right near 307 but won’t consider 307 as an option because of the “population” to see that population traipsing through their neighborhood as middle schoolers.

  • Mary

    PS 133 is a beautiful story. I’m hoping that if my child is waitlisted at PS 8, he’ll get into PS 133, but admission there is also by a very competitive lottery. I would much rather walk my child 3 blocks to PS 8, where he’ll already know a ton of kids, both in the upper grades and in his own class, and for me, as a parent, to be actively involved in the community where I’ve lived for 10 years. However, PS 133 would be a second choice I could live with, especially if my child could get in with a few of his friends who also listed 133 as a choice. But the DOE is completely missing in action on this. While the DOE came and gave us a tutorial on making second, third, and fourth choices on our applications in the
    event we get locked out of PS 8, they’ve done nothing to help us get into our other choice schools. They just dropped this decision on us last minute and are trying to shuffle us all to PS 307.

  • Wilhelm Reich

    it’s outdated 70s wimpy hippie logic. And when you think about it racist. MAKE ALL SCHOOLS GOOD AND ALL KIDS WILL BE WELL EDUCATED. Duh. Mixing in “middle class” kids who might know the difference between a salad fork and a cake fork is not really the best strategy. “Poor” kids get lousy schools because their parents are too busy SURVIVING to make a stink.

    So MR. GOLDSMITH – stop with the BUSING idea. That’s a dead dead dead dead dead concept. Make all the schools great. Hard stop. Geez is it really that hard?

    Also – all kids should go to their neighborhood school. If PS8 sucked, I’d still send my kid there and deal with whatever I had to to compensate.

    A perfect Utopia DOES NOT and WILL NOT ever exist. But giving into LOGIC and the simplest path will lead to greatness.

    Oh and btw the number of multi-racial children has risen significantly so the “need” to integrate is an antiquated one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/us/25race.html

    STOP THE MADNESS.

    YOU HAVE THE POWER.

    STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR SANITY!!

  • resident

    Why not move to the suburbs where your child can have a good education and not be subject the the nyc public school system just because YOU want a city life…

  • Guest

    Unfortunately, it’s not an option. Only district schools are possibilities. None of the other schools in our district are remotely close especially if your South of Montague. I see a bus regularly pick up several elementary students from Joralemon, anyone know where it takes them?

  • fast_walker

    Because the city will be deprived of the tax revenue. Everyone should be interested in the middle class families staying in Brooklyn. By the way, I want city life for my kids as well for various reasons: not having to drive until they are actually mature is one of them. Not to mention that if you have a family with both parents working (I hope we all agree this is acceptable in this day and age), commute from Manhattan to the suburb would eat into my dinner time with the kids. Oh and how about reducing the urban sprawl, relying less on cars to get around. Don’t you think this is a positive social trend?? The bottom line, if this government thinks that every citizen deserves the right to send their kids to a public school regardless of their income, a school should be built in Brooklyn Heights or Dumbo (or both). Denying middle class families an opportunity to send their kids to a local school and forcing them to resolve the issue through private education maybe what DOE has in mind. However, doesn’t this lead to more segregation?

  • StoptheChop

    Sadly, this isn’t anything new for families in other neighborhoods– lots of kids have too travel way too far, way too long, to get to school. But NYC seems indifferent to the problem.

  • BHMommy

    That bus is either for Berkeley Carroll – private school in Park Slope – or Basis – private school in Red Hook

  • Mary

    Mom, is that you??
    Since you asked, there are many reasons for me personally staying in the city. For one, I’ve been here virtually my whole life. I have a 15 minute commute to work, so I have maximum time with my child despite being a working mother. If there’s an emergency, I’m not an hour plus away. True, my child’s education is more important to me than anything, including my own selfish desire to continue living my city life. Here’s the thing. I thought that I had invested in a community where I could send my child to a decent neighborhood public school, despite what’s going on in the rest of the city. But alas, I had the rug pulled out from under me. So maybe you’re right and my mom too (as usual).

  • Banet

    I know a bus picks up kids at Joralemon and Hicks to take them to, wait for it, PS 8!

    In defense of the kid I know who takes that bus, he’s in kindergarten so it’s a bit of a walk.

  • heights res

    Don’t see anything in this article about busing kids. Bottom line is that BH and Dumbo are way overbuilt and it’s not stopping anytime soon. Just like many other neighborhoods….. BH already got an extension to ps8 by political pressure, jumping them ahead of a whole list of schools that are literally falling apart – but not in such a nice neighborhood. There will never be enough space.
    Kids have to be given space within their District. PS307 has space and it’s a wonderful school. Any parent would be lucky to have their kid go there.

  • Mary

    Below is the article on busing. It’s long, sorry. Anyone genuinely interested should read it and question why mere days after this decision was made, the superintendent and the CEC president met with the principals of 307 and 287 (only) to discuss where to send PS8 kids who lose the lottery. I believe there are only good intentions behind this, but forgive me for not wanting my child to be used as a guinea pig in their “grand experiment.” Here’s a choice quote from the article:

    “And then there’s the crucial question of public support: Will middle-class families, whose chances of admission to one of District 13’s most desirable schools would fall under the proposal, lobby against the plan? And will they choose to attend often lower-performing schools with many poor students, or will they curb the experiment by leaving the district?”

    http://ny.chalkbeat.org/2014/02/12/in-brooklyns-district-13-a-task-force-aims-to-engineer-socioeconomic-integration/#.VRsuEzvF-iY

  • Flowerpower

    I have a lot of empathy for those parents trying to get their kids into PS 8 K for next year- but songbird, who suggests
    the 6th K class is the PERFECT solution for next year to accommodate the wait list, fails to mention what will happen to that 6th K class once the classes continue to move up and be consolidated- and how we will end up with up to the max of 35 kids in a class in the upper grades..

  • BrooklynBugle

    That was my editors note. as a product of nyc public schools, 35 kids in a class was the norm and no one protested. what really matters here is a sensible plan which we’ve yet to hear.

  • Flowerpower

    Just because no one protested doesn’t mean it’s the optimum situation-

  • Flowerpower

    and it’s not the only thing that matters. the situation of the current students matters too-

  • BrooklynBugle

    everyone lived.

  • Mary

    Thank you for your empathy. I’m heart-broken over this situation that’s tearing our community apart. I worry that my child will be waitlisted, but just as much, I worry that his friends will be waitlisted, even if my child gets in. I know for a fact that songbird doesn’t believe keeping 6 K classes is the “perfect” solution and neither do any of us. We understand the concerns of the in-school parents and I’m personally distressed over the division among parents that’s resulted. But there were and are other options that weren’t fully explored and coupled with the utter lack of planning by the DOE and zero transparency in the decision-making, I don’t think you can blame us for feeling that our children were cast out of our village with little concern for their well-being and in reaction, advocating for what’s best for them.

  • BHMommy

    It’s not the optimum situation, but it’s a very reasonable band-aid while the DOE figures out what to do – it’s only been 6 months since the overcrowding became public and still there is NO SHORT TERM solution. The optimum solution is reasonable rezoning so that nobody needs to travel miles to send their kid to their local schools.

  • Flowerpower

    I never said I blame incoming parents for advocating on their behalf, and my empathy is real and sincere- I hope you were not being facetious about thanking me for expressing it (which would be devisive) and I don’t like the divide either- none of us do- in which case you also must understand why current parents advocate for what they feel is best for their kids too- and don’t want to be called selfish or devisive for doing so. My hope, and I believe ALL ps 8 parents hope and want a solution that will help everyone- not just for the short term-

  • Guest

    This will eventually impact property values. When a family spends the kind of money it costs to live here they expect to be able to send their children to a school in the neighborhood and not have to endure a commute with a five year old. Even if you can afford it, the private schools in the area cannot and will not absorb all of the incoming students so good luck getting in. Once families realize there is no place to send their kids to school they’ll look elsewhere before buying. One would think the developers would have a vested interest in sustaining the value of the community they are selling. I believe PS 29 and 58 still are able to take all zoned students. I should have bought over there.

  • SongBirdNYC

    This post has been updated with the addition of a statement from Council Member, Stephen Levin.

  • Reggie

    Way before Farina’s time. It was one of the “inducements” Walentas used to get Dock Street upzoned so he could build his highrise in the neighborhood.

  • StoptheChop

    I’ve read news stories quoting developers who say “Infrastructure isn’t my problem; that’s for the city to deal with” — clearly believing — with justification — that buyers won’t ask the tough questions (exhibit A: the highrise that the BPL is insisting that Brooklyn Heights must absorb, with their eager developer already selected).

    And kids should be able to attend good neighborhood schools regardless of where they live. I see way too many young children on the subway early in the morning — private and public schoolkids. Of course, suburban and rural kids do have to travel– but being able to avoid that is one of the reasons we’re in NYC!

  • fast_walker

    Sounds like District 13 needs to fight against the Capitol.

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