Doug Biviano: Danger at Pier 6 from Heather Quinlan on Vimeo.
New York State Assembly candidate Doug Biviano contacted us about safety issues with the newly-opened Pier 6: In addition to the knee-skinning gravel surface and bad sight lines between playground sections, Biviano also pointed out jagged boulders, potentially dangerous equipment and spots where he felt safety was sacrificed for design. He explains more in the video above—watch and have your say below.
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Unbelievable. This is a non-issue, issue. The reality is, there is no real danger from the screw, the wood, or the boulders. But since Biv doesn’t like the way the city and state are paying for the park, he scratches at anything he can get from the park politically. I don’t buy it. I don’t like it.
The single most important issue for those kids, is going to be the the NY state budget. It’s a mess and the state is spending money on the stupidest things. Most recently, a $25 million loan for the raceway. Now they are talking about the possibility of NY state taking out a $6 to 9 Billion loan in order for them to pay for day to day operations. The Senate/Assembly wants to mortgage our state’s future. How come nobody is making a video about that?
what a killjoy.
I would give Doug an”interesting point” on the water thing, but I can’t really get enthusiastic about the rest of his concerns. We can all cite hundreds of examples of unanticipated dangers in playgrounds when we were kids (or when our own were small), but good parenting and sense seemed to do the trick. And routine bumps and scrapes are, well, routine. Also, filming the video among visibly happy/engaged kids and parents who seem unriled and not in anxiety mode is an odd approach.
Within two days my 5 y.o. had scraped both shins and her back on the slippery boulders in the water section–and she’s an athletic kid, not a klutz.
That aside, I am more concerned about getting there–in particular the “right turn on red after stop” at the eastbound entrance to the BQE on Atlantic. Those cars come flying down there–the sight line is not great. It is a disaster waiting to happen with all the kids and strollers going back and forth. Please, please tell me who to contact about making that red light a “NO right turn on red” light. It is just a no-brainer to fix that (at least during the hours the park is open).
I also can’t understand how they opened Pier 6 with no restrooms. Even Pier 1 has some decent temporary restrooms. Pier 6 has port-a-potties that are truly disgusting. I’ve seen nannies allowing little boys to pee in the playground shrubbery rather than taking them to the p-a-p. Ick.
Cat I agree the atlantic ave approach is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be fixed. The one time I went to meet my kids there I wound up taking the Joralomen entrance since its safer and the road is slower than the road going towards the BQE. I told my nanny to go that way as well. The bathroom situation also is a problem though I also think it helps somewhat with the crowd.
That said Pier 6 is really wonderful and breaks the mold for the boring typical playgrounds around here. All the kids seem to be having a ball and my kids ask to be taken there everyday.
What complete and utter nonsense. How much money is this guy going to waste in hearings, approvals and reengineering just to get his name out there. It’s just another example of a politician creating problems that don’t exist (to “fix”) while ignoring all the real ones.
PLAYGROUND DESIGN is a specific talent and area, which LANDSCAPE DESIGN does not include. When I was on the playground committee many years ago when the Pierrepont Playground was being redesigned from the old type with monkey bars, sand boxes, etc. we hired a specific playground designer whose main consideration was safety. The minute I saw Pier 6 playground, I said, “These are accidents just waiting to happen”.
I’m a parent and the concerns seem reasonable as my child is accident prone. They also seem like easy fixes. I also agree about the street crossings.
You know what they say, “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Beautiful park. Nothing is perfect. The crossing on Atlantic Ave. is bad and needs to be fixed, but once the remainder of the park is completed, then I supposed that getting their from the north will be a non-issue. The fact that this politician decided to go out on a nice day when kids were clearly enjoying the park to point out how dangerous it is is comical.
LOL… this clown calls himself an outdoorsman, since when are all the rocks in nature rounded, smooth and safe? How the hell are kids supposed to learn about the dangers of the real world with out getting a few bumps and scrapes…. My friends and I grew up at the Pierrepont & Squibb Playgrounds, back in the day with the seesaws, metal swings, sandboxes and monkey bars… all the apparatus considered “too dangerous” by todays standards… Sure we got hurt, even racked-up a few trips to the ER, but that’s how we learned to be safe…
I agree with Doug but think he should have some more important things to deal with. Round the corners, especially the dock in the water area where kids always seem to be running and is also a tad overcrowed at times. I never looked at the water screw before, but does seem to be a bit dangerous. The BQE traffic is probably the most dangerous issue though
The playground is fabulous and my kid LOVES it. And while it is not as safe as some of the all rubberized and standardized playgrounds elsewhere, it is much, much safer than the playgrounds I grew up playing in. So the bad news for parents and nannies who were hoping to relax is that they actually have to pay attention to their kids. And periodically some kids will get hurt. I got hurt as a kid periodically and somehow survived long enough to respond to silly comments on blogs. So let’s appreciate the playground and keep an eye on our kids and hope that none of the injuries are serious.
This reminds me of the Mainway toys skit on SNL where he tries to convince the reporter that a foam ball is more dangerous than the Johnny Swithblade Adventure Punk.
Maybe the park should institute a rule where it is mandatory that kids dress up in giant inflatable bubble suits before entering the premises.
Scrapes build character!
Many local parents are aware of a design-blunder nearby along the new Brooklyn Bridge park, of a play-element of 3 solid, silver-chrome mounds (about 3 ft high, and 10 ft in radius). The 3 mounds grew white-hot, like a baked potato would — only it was searing off skin on hands and knees. They had to be retro-fitted with a low tent over each for makeshift shade (which is not a permanent solution).
While some readers ‘cannot get enthusiastic” about a topic, as a campaign issue — fine — but, the topic nevertheless is a citywide problem. This flaw in choices made, and placement (especially with the 10-ft. baking potatoes) had to be corrected — at add’l cost — and any critic could easily be asked to place their hands (where their mouth is) and carry the results of being wrong about something as simply as safety in playground design.
Head-scratching, regarding design flaw is more widespread. Within a Brooklyn housing project, also covered in the media of late, local families pointed out that their playground featured a “jail” motif — something unusual for any inner city playgrounds that was taken as insensitive by the local residents, and remedied after it got airtime on NY1.
Issues can be large, or small. It’s relative, but if you’re to be the one in a Long Island College Emergency room with a screaming 4 yr. old with a gash or injury, on a sweltering summer day — you’re choice would be, from now, to ensure safer public play areas for children.
Doug Biviano makes considerable points, and speaking of points — installing sharp wooden edges designed for where toddlers, young children may run — is absurd. Rounding the edges changes the design flair, but you’d have to question why the platforms are there at all — which would be a slippery surface if the footwear or feet of children are still wet.
Biviano’s brought his children there, experienced the place, recognized an issue and relayed it. He’s not attacking anyone, but offering a solution to help when other children use the space, as it grows in popularity. When a political figure speaks out, its usually with a more self-interested purpose (or showing the media that they were saying so, without a set solution). Politicians want to be SEEN as “fighters” — yet have scant records of winning any. He’s a current candidate and civic-minded to his credit. In this case, he’s alerted elected officials as a public citizen, before he’s alerted the Park Department. A complaint to 311 by anyone that feels the same way — is also a worthwhile action (put in place by the Mayor for community input).
As a resident that’s born and raised here, I’ve seen many kids across the years get injured. While older residents can scoff and recall how much ‘tougher’ their childhood was because of injuries endured or avoided by see-saws, monkey-bars, iron swings… vs. an over-protective nature, today… it doesn’t change the fact that it’s senseless to design and install new & costly elements to park spaces in 2010 that well, as the toy industry says.. aren’t ‘kid-tested and parent approved’.
Speaking of street crossing, the construction around Pier 1 is extremely dangerous. The only way into the park is via Doughty St which has no light and no stop sign and there are cars peeling off the BQE coming around a blind corner. Not to mention that the park and the landing were totally cut off this weekend and we had to go back and forth the dangerous crossing twice to get ice cream.
Ohhh… Ice cream!
I think Biv brings up some good points. I’ve been to the park and the only one I personally noticed that he pointed out was the sharp corners on the raised platforms, especially the one in the water area. But the screw does seem to be particularly dangerous – I can see a kid turning it while another has his/her hand in the bottom. While I also agree that kids are going to get scrapes and bruises, if you can prevent it easily, why not? Especially when the cost of not doing anything will probably result in a lawsuit against the city that will certainly be more costly than fixing these small oversights. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some sleazy lawyer just spending his days down there waiting for an accident to occur.
BTW I have no complaints about Doug’s intentions. He is a local father and seems like an overall nice guy. So though there may be a little politicking going on here, I’m sure there is also genuine concern for the children as well.
I’m not sure what could be done about the boulders but the water wheel and wooden platforms looks like it can be remedied easily and with little cost but the road crossings needs to be a priority considering the volume of people I see crossing there daily.
It’s called an Archimedean screw. You’re just guessing that a kid could get his hand caught in there. Super unlikely. Not saying its impossible but of all the ways to hurt yourself in a water park with all those kids going nuts that seems like the least of the worries.
Anyway, smooth wet boulders are are more hazardous for kids to run on that rough ones. At least the rough ones have a place for your feet to catch.
Certainly there are more local pressing issues in the area.
The issue with the screw is that the park is so popular that a kid has a foot or hand down there and a different kid is turning it and it gets stuck. I’ve seen it happen twice already and luckily the kid stopped once someone screamed STOP! but smaller kids wont yell stop and smaller ( or brattier) kids won’t stop immediately when they’re told.
It’s a great park. It takes a lot more helicoptering than I like to do as a parent — a lot of wet rocks and sharp corners. But it is a great park.
oh dear !
the kids are going to scrape their knees playing!
he’ll probably also find peanut residue there and rile up
all those yuppy parents too !
Kids need to get mildly hurt now and then as they play. This is how you learn your limits. I certain had my share of bumps, scrapes, and bruises, and I wouldn’t go back and change any of those experiences. I miss the huge spiral slide they took out of my hometown playground for fear of lawsuits. Today’s kids don’t know what they’re missing. Thrills and Spills!
I completely agree with the concerns about crossing Atlantic avenue. I bike near there a lot, and it is really scary sometimes as people treat the red light at the entry lamps as a green arrow even when the walk sign is displayed. This was fine back when no pedestrians really ventured down there, but now with all the kids, I think some tweeks to the lights are in order. Also, a bike lane on Furman street is not a bad idea til the park is ready.
sorry, I meant “entry RAMPS” not “entry lamps!”
Does anyone also see the irony that while playgrounds are getting so overly safe, there is a parallel rise in the building of skate parks for older kids, where they can really do some skull-cracking damage?
IMHO, Lori is the only one who seems to understand why this park has problems. You don’t hire a landscape artist to design a playground, simple as that. Sure, an Archimedean screw looks cool, but Biviano isn’t “guessing” when he points out its potential for harm. The only safety feature it seems to possess is its proximity to the LICH emergency room.
I agree with Lori as well. Design trumped safety. I believe they could have kept the aesthetics and still made the playground safer. (It’s a lovely space and so wonderfully different from all the other playgrounds in the nabe.) I did hear today that a child slipped on the rocks in the water park and got 11 stitches where he split his mouth and chin. Not exactly “Thrills and Spills!” for this kid.
There were three DOT(?) officials out on Atlantic Ave. this afternoon checking out the intersection. I told them the “right turn on red” is extremely dangerous, and they said that’s one of the things they are looking at. So glad they are on top of this–a very pedestrian un-friendly walk to the new park.
For what it is worth, the NY Hall of Science outdoor Science Playground has an Archimedes screw, which also uses water. I’ve not seen any injuries: http://www.nysci.org/explore/exhibitions/sciencePlayground/sciencePlaygroundExhibits. It is a great place to visit, by the way.
This doesn’t take away from Pier 6, which is simply a somewhat dangerous place for kids.
And for those who think skinned knees builds stronger kids, you may be interested in this very book: “The Blessing of a Skinned Knee: Using Jewish Teachings to Raise Self-Reliant Children”, which effectively preaches this point (http://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Skinned-Knee-Teachings-Self-Reliant/dp/0142196002). However, I don’t think the author had hot metal orbs or tall slippery rocks in mind when she wrote the book.
You guys, does anyone know that they didn’t hire a playground designer to do this area? I’m pretty sure that on a park this scale with a city contract, they would have had some sort of specialist design this feature, or at least sign off on it for liability reasons. The Landscape design firm can always hire subcontractors, y’know.
So even if some people think it looks unsafe, that doesn’t mean it is. When people design stuff, they actually think about the user, and the scnarios of use. I know that is shocking to many people, but not all beautiful things were designed with no thought to the user.
my2, I raised this issue a couple of months ago with the Pier 1 problems, and nobody stepped up to argue against my landscape/playground design dichotomies, so I’m going to stick by my original contention that Van Valkenberg was in complete control of all design aspects of this park. Show me the city “specialist” who signed off on this, and we can start the discussion there.
I was told that they didn’t hire a playground consultant — question was asked during an interview related to the domes.
While I completely agree kids need to fall down and scrape their knees, I think people here are pointing out things above and beyond. I don’t mind the concrete sandbox or the lack of shade, but the squared off edges on the platforms and pioneer homes seem an odd design choice.. And the rocks are slippery. Hey, I’ve been to Pier 1 playground twice and Pier 6 playground twice and in the 4 visits, I’ve seen two kids taken to the ER for stitches. I’ve been to other Brooklyn playgrounds hundreds of times and only seen that twice before.
What was the cause of the accidents you saw?
my2cents, I suppose you wear a helmet when you ride your bike?
“Thrills and spills.” So why are you complaining about pedestrians in your way? Why do you need some sissy bike lane?
You talk about irony, but yours is so ridiculous that I had to post (which you will see me doing a lot less of, but that’s a different story).
At Pier 6 I saw a kid step off the water table thing in the sand box. He was standing on top busy playing and just stepped back and off .. that’s not a small drop. He split his chin on the cement on the way down At Pier 1 I saw a girl climb the dome, fall off the dome and onto another kid. She cut her cheek pretty badly — not sure on what.
Maybe the kids climb on things the designers didn’t anticipate being climbed?
Kids will climb on anything given the opportunity. Any playground designer should know this.
Re: “So even if some people think it looks unsafe, that doesn’t mean it is.”
my2cents, do you have young children? I’m just curious because anyone looking at the playground can point out to you all the unsafe elements for kids.
My daughter is a risk taker and has been since she could walk. I have tried not to hold her back and to let her challenge herself. There are some great elements to this playground–she loves it and we are there almost every day. But there are some things that make my hair stand on end when I think of how easily she could crack her little 5-yr.-old head open.
Biviano went for low-hanging fruit here.
Oh god … Everyone – Just shut up. You too Doug. Whiniest non-issue having blog post. Until the next one
also … Doug just lost my vote
Pier 6 is a gorgeous playground, but it does have some dangers. Within 2 minutes of entering the water lab, my son slipped while walking and landed on his head. He was not running or goofing off, just walking from point A to point B. A fall like that could have caused him to lose consciousness and drown in the water there. Thankfully, it did not, but he wasn’t the only kid I saw slip in there that day.
What a nation of babies. What ever happened to taking responsibility for your own choices and actions? Do you really think the bureaucracy can keep you out of all harm’s way? Do we really need to encourage more lawsuits?
(I couldn’t resist the AC/DC reference)
I assume that people who self-identify as playground designers probably got into that position by designing numerous playgrounds over the years. This would mean that they are probably already either a landscape architect or architect by training – not some kind of magical specialist with distinct professional standards.
Most playgrounds that you see are “designed” by having people from parks department, parents, or designers sit down with representatives from the big play equipment manufacturers (Gametime, etc.) and pick things out of a catalogue. As a parent, I appreciate the fact that these manufacturers have worked very hard to put together a catalogue of relatively fool-proof equipment, but I am not always impressed with the results – it all ends up feeling a little cloned. Pier Six is awesome because clearly there was a lot more creativity going on here than just carving out an area, calling in Game Time and then taking a vote on the best color scheme or the “theme”.
Regardless of who is in charge, there are standards for playground design that certainly had to be followed here as they would have to be followed in any playground — these have to do with fall distances between objects, depth of safety surface, distance of the ground for certain elements, height of the opening on top of a slide, etc. The standards don’t eliminate all risk from play (which is okay, because learning to take risks incrementally is something kids need to learn to do, as many here have pointed out), but they are used to address the most frequently identified hazards that have arisen in playground design over the years (for instance, the splintery creosote play structures that I grew up with wouldn’t have passed muster, but neither would have the super cool long chained swings on my school playground).
Oddly, the two pieces of play equipment that have earned the most criticism on this blog – the Archimedes screw and the stainless steel domes — are both commercially produced items. Which is to say, they have been designed by industrial designers who specialize in play equipment, not by the landscape architects. I believe that both of these are by european companies, but I don’t think that they love their children any less over there.
I think the people who are saying this is all nonsense are people who haven’t taken kids to this playground.
As a parent, I would like nothing more than to sit in the shade with a book and half an eye on my kids. This is not possible for a variety of reasons, one of which is that there is no place to sit at Pier 6 and see your kids. The sight lines .. well, there are no sight lines. So parents are forced to follow their kids around and if you have two kids, forget it. And making parents follow the kids around instead of sitting on the sidelines really adds to the crowd. My kids have had broken bones, stitches, the works. I’m okay with that — I dont want my kids living in a bubble. I just think there was a missed opportunity here.
My kids will go here a lot and they’ll learn to avoid the surprise boulders in the sandbox and remember not to step backwards off the water table. I know Joralemon is better than Atlantic. But it’s a destination park and for first time visitors, it’s a tricky park.
He lost my vote too.
Angus, given that the lead designer of BPP is named Van Valkenberg, I don’t think mentioning that the most problematic elements in the two parks come from European companies does anything to advance your argument. In fact. it sounds as if any and all American companies were deemed too “cloned”and thus rejected. You obviously seem to have some inside knowledge of the process, so please show us the guidelines that these parks were supposed to adhere to, and let us judge (or measure the drop-distances) for ourselves.
I was accosted by Doug at Pier 6 the other evening and this just guarantees he won’t get my vote. I’ve taken my two children to the playground five times now. They love it. I love it. I have not seen anyone bleeding and being hauled off to LICH. Surely Doug has his friends writing comments here now. It’s pitiful that he would take such an adversarial approach before he’s even collected enough signatures to appear on the ballot.
Not to call anyone a safety hypocrite, but I saw Mr. Biviano riding his bike the other day without a helmet. Before he starts shedding crocodile tears about imaginary “hazards” at the playground, perhaps he should focus his attention on his own approach to personal safety.
This ridiculous little clip leaves me with a clear impression of what a phony he is. He will never get my vote. The helmet thing may seem trivial to some, but it is a fact that part of a parent’s responsibility is to set a good example for their kids and also to preserve their own personal safety.
Mr. Biviano’s motivations here are extremely suspect and it seems incredible that he brought his kids into this great park to play and then spent his whole time fretting about so-called “jagged” rocks (even in the video you can see that this description is entirely overblown!).
If I have learned anything as a parent it is that children learn through play and there are certain kinds of places that seem to open them up to fun. The play choices are great at Pier 6, and although it may be possible pick at the details, I don’t see any “glaring hazards” (to quote the video). It has actually been laid out very thoughtfully. It is a big big playground which is what we needed and which might mean that you need to keep a closer eye on your kids, for instance establishing rules with the older ones about staying close, etc. If some people prefer a small playground where there are just a few pieces of equipment, there are plenty of places like that around. Furthermore, it sounds like the Archimedes screw, which my son loves, is from a play catalog and has safely been used before. Perhaps Mr. Biviano should have investigated this a little before fear-mongering about children being “sucked down” into the water.
To be honest, a bigger safety concern for me with respect to kids is the way the bicycles have been brought into the park – many bikers are polite, but there is a fairly large contingent who don’t have any respect for pedestrians and pose a big threat to small children, who move around in unexpected ways, and are harder to see when you are perched up high and travelling very fast. Why aren’t bikes just part of the street system like they are everywhere else in Brooklyn? Why are the bikes even allowed in the park?
Not sure what the landscape designer’s last name has to do with anything. And if you were trying to imply that it’s a “European” name (although I’m not sure why that matters) you should know that I’m pretty sure he grew up in upstate new york.
The thing that bugs me most about this video is the blatant political calculation behind it, which went something like this: “Biviano is looking to get publicity for his political campaign + the safety concerns at the Pier 1 playground got tons of press + there’s nothing that journalists like more than to wring another news cycle out of an existing story by adding a new wrinkle to the narrative they constructed = If I claim that the Pier 6 playground is unsafe, it’s a sure fire way to generate some free publicity for my campaign, no matter the fact that these “concerns” do not pass the smell test or have any real basis in reality.
While the park, in general, is a fantastic addition, there ARE some design flaws. Actually more than Biviano mentioned. The biggest problem right now is overcrowding, since it is new and has a big water attraction. I’ve seen many kids (including my three year old son) slip and fall- and fall hard!- because the surface is slick and on a hill. The many rocks and boulders surrounding it add a whole additional layer of danger. The lack of any shade structures is also a glaring oversight. They say that the trees will provide shade, but that will take 3-5 years!
SO, even though it is a really fantastic park, more thought should have been put into how kids actually play on the attractions. It IS a playground for kids, right??
I went to Pier 6 yesterday and it really is beautiful. I was watching my 3.5 year old really carefully while she splashed around at the bottom end of the “screw” thing (because you can see how a foot could easily get caught in it), when the girl playing next to her screamed out as her foot got caught in the bottom end of the screw and twisted around. The kids up top were happily turning the crank and probably wouldn’t even have noticed what was happening what was going on down below had I not screamed at them to stop.
Amazing park, but few changes need be made before some kids are seriously hurt.