Chop the Choppers Over Brooklyn Heights

The call for a complete ban on tourist helicopters at the DMH is consistent with a heliport master plan study released by the Giuliani administration in 1999. The study analyzed the operations of all three heliports operating in Manhattan, and recommended the prohibition of signseeing at City-owned heliports. A Helicopter Oversight Committee was established and was to be chaired by EDC. The committee was to review heliport operating practices and helicopter activity levels and investigate public concerns regarding potential noise and safety issues. Its purpose at the time was to achieve a balance between local helicopter efficiency, safety requirements, and the local communities’ quality of life concerns. We know of no such oversight committee under the Bloomberg Administration.

Following the August 8. 2009 mid air collision over the Hudson River, the City Council held an oversight hearing in September where every elected official who testified called upon the City to ban tourist helicopters from the skies above NYC.

Today, the DMH is the only heliport that remains open to sight-seeing helicopters and – as has been reported – the flights that were operating out of West 30th were transferred downtown in phases, the last phase having been completed on March 31, according to the Friends of Hudson River Park’s website.

We know that five helicopter companies run flights in and out of the DMH but we do not know the breakdown of users nor do we have the daily totals because nobody has the time here to sit on a bench and count them. Residents report that they are constantly overhead, hence “a war zone” atmosphere.

The BHA requested operations data from the NYCEDC for the DMH in order to understand just what is involved there. How many flights are logged in and out, and for what purpose? We still don’t have that answer. We also asked NYC EDC to arrange for the DEP to take noise readings inside apartments where people trying to work at home (let alone sleep or socialize) can’t think straight with the perpetual whop-whop. We think the DB level in some people’s apartments is way higher than what would be considered acceptable under the City’s noise code, but it hasn’t been measured yet.

We know that water amplifies sound. And when there are 5 helicopters at a time idling on the helipad across the river, the sound on the Brooklyn shore is very loud. We would love to know what the DB level in Brooklyn Bridge Park is at times like that.

So, yes, 4 hours of “quiet” would be an improvement on the status quo. And an outright ban on non-essential helicopter flights would result in a much safer and healthier environment for everyone in the City.

Has anyone considered requiring that Hudson helicopters be required to use whisper mode, like Blue Thunder? That would solve the problem. You’re welcome.

Zburch the bhb is the new bha and they are effective in getting the word out

I’ve been thinking about the petition. The tours operate from 9AM to 7PM, so “No nighttime flights” isn’t really a concession by them. I would be more willing to support a four hour window for flights, say if they were only allowed to fly 10AM-2PM. That seems like a time that would have the lowest impact on the promenade and the park. I could maybe live with four hours of droning in my apt.

Stepping out of the subway the other night, I was hit by this wall of roar blown/sucked into Clark Street from the heliport. This is changing the whole atmosphere of our “leafy, quiet” neighborhood.— This new NYC EDC arrangement raises so many questions. What was the Mayor thinking when he allowed his EDC to make this arrangement and was at the same time working to obtain (as of 3/22) the stewardship of the new Brooklyn Bridge Park? And had he forgotten also about the impact on Governors Island? The FAA representative speaks of millions of $s in revenue for the City — from tourists, yes, but from helicopter tours? Tourists will still come without such tours. How do taxes locals pay compare to the revenue from such flights? Chances are that the tourists visiting our new “world-class” park will be more numerous than the ones taking the sightseeing flights. Won’t they be appalled at the lack of environmental consciousness that the helicopter traffic exemplifies? There are far fewer tourists and heliport operators/pilots than Brooklyn/Manhattan residents and users of BBPark, Promenade and Governors Island. Isn’t their quality of life more important than a few minutes’ thrill of a few tourists? Or the profit of helicopter operators? One could go on and on… And then there is the safety issue. In their approach to the heliport, many copters fly low over residential streets. So far, the 5 accidents in 5 years happened over water; what if one comes down over Clark Street or Montague Street? As to the petition, wouldn’t the heliport operator object to only 4 hours of tour flights or, if he agreed, want the down time when there are fewer anyway, 10 AM to 2 PM?

The dude on news said that they bring in 40 million for the city, I would like to see the actual tax rolls for these companies. According to Liberty’s website they fly 160,000 people a year, averaging high at $200 per, that is 32 million GROSS. Multiply that by sales tax and you get 2,760,000. Of course there may be rental fees and there are other companies, but they are the largest. I would like to see proof of that 40M #. They are going to lose that pretty quickly if this continues and businesses move out of the fly zone. Jersey anyone? I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to see that the city could potentially lose that and more as companies and people move away from the noise. Good luck building any more real estate in the area, I am already considering a move.

“The dude on news said that they bring in 40 million for the city”

zburch, did you notice that “for the city” was a tacked-on phrase put in his mouth by the interviewer? I agree with you… it appears to be the gross, not taxes.

About this petition. While I appreciate the spirit of evenhandedness that Homer Fink exhibits in his rallying effort, I decline to sign a petition that takes as self-evident that helicopter tour operators “deserve to make a living”, which is not founded in logic or ethics, and worse, a petition that proposes a “short quiet period”, which would seem to be a solution that one would accept only after losing the battle.

We are under vibratory assault, and we have not yet begun to fight!

My understanding is that the 30th St heliport was illegal under the terms of the Hudson River Park. There was some sort of grandfathering period as well as a stay on eviction while various suits were litigated.

Jane: I am decades past being a freshman, if you were wondering.

I already put up with noise from:
The BQE (imposed on this neighborhood by Robert Moses before I arrived);
Trucks coming from and going to the BQE;
Police choppers and news choppers where they may be;
Garbage trucks public & private;
Street cleaning machines (though not lately?);
Fire trucks;
Fresh Direct, UPS, USPS, & Fed Ex trucks;
Drunken night-revelers;
and Random alarms (sooo much better now than some years ago).

I do not believe that an unnecessary service such as helicopter tour operator has a right to bring so much discomfort to so many for the pleasure of a relative few. The same goes for helicopter business shuttles.

Neighborhood construction & renovation

…that belonged in the list above.

epc, I think you mean “Beware of the Leopard”

Helione, dumb person should I say, many of us lived there before this chopper thing went insanely busy.

A helicopter has been hovering low for at least 30 minutes over the nabe this morning (6:30)so I called 311. As usual I was told they could not take the complaint, so I asked to register a complaint that they would not take my complaint about helicopter noise. They said they were going to send it to the EDC, so I don’t feel that will really go anywhere, right? Then, I had to ask specifically to send the complaint to the Mayor’s office, which they took. Totally infuriating, but in order to get it to the Mayor one must…Make a complaint about not being able to make a complaint, then specify the Mayor’s office as well before they get you off the line, and one must be fairly insistent on doing so because clearly they don’t want to take it. They are trying to avoid the issue by pushing it to the EDC and not registering complaints through 311 because it uses their time and resources. Keep them on the line and force them to take something, anything and be sure it is sent to the Mayor.