Tourist helicopter flights over Brooklyn Bridge Park and Brooklyn Heights have gotten out of control. We propose a quiet period of 4 hours per day on flights from the Downtown Manhattan Heliport. We do not agree with the BHA’s proposal of a full ban on such flights. If you agree, please sign our petition here. If you disagree or have ideas about a better proposal please comment below.
Let your voice be heard. Contact our local officials:
Mayor Michael Bloomberg
Public Advocate Bill deBlasio
State Senator Daniel Squadron
City Councilmember Steve Levin
NYS Assemblymember Joan Millman
U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer
Note: This is the first in a series of posts about this issue. We will be refining our proposal based on your input. Stay tuned.
This is horrifying! I live on Willow Street facing the water and with the windows open, I can’t have a conversation with my husband. Not sure what the solution is, but we can’t live this way. It’s really terrible.
Note that not only have tourist flights moved to JRB, there’s a new “executive” heli-commuting service (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aWz55bmEsxa8&pos=10).
“Ride of the Valkyries” would have been the more appropriate music choice.
Just wait hoppy.
I finally understand why so many 35 foot tall light poles were placed on Pier 1. They are obviously approach lights to the Downtown Heliport.
Four hour quiet period??? How about four hour operating period!!!
Having just bought my first router, I’m ecstatic at the freedom it offers me to take my laptop outside…a short-lived ecstasy apparently. For what do I hear on my first virtual trip into the wild? You guessed it, a police helicopter.
@epc … the commuting service is far more offensive that the tourist business. For the vast majority of tourists such a flight is a once in a lifetime experience. The commuter flights are gratuitous and most likely the preferred method of transportation of the CEOs and others who are directly responsible for the economic mess we’re in right now. And don’t get me started on the stimulus money that’s probably being used to pay for these unnecessary trips. So IF any flights are to be banned it should be the commuter flights.
The solution to this is obviously to arm heights residents with slingshots. I have written several letters to the BHA addressing this issue, but have yet to receive a reply back…
My understanding about the executive commuting service is that it’s a scheduled charter service …a couple of flights in the morning, a couple in the evening. Not trying to excuse it, but also I don’t believe that that was the source for Friday’s scourge of the helibirds.
We could do a bit of socio-group-swarming and use twitter or something else to track when flights come in/take off, tag tweets with something like #jrbhelo.
The increase in the HELL-icopter traffic is because tourist traffic has been diverted from Chelsea Piers to South Street. Here is the article about that: http://tinyurl.com/ygdjrn4 . The Hudson River Park sued the tourist companies because of the noise, and won. Now we bear the burden. This tourist traffic is far more frequent than commuters. They have flights as short as 7 minutes, fly much lower, and have many more copters. I have lived in the nabe 12 years, and have never seen traffic this dense. One after another after another circling around to look at the Statue of Liberty, up to the Bridge and back. There are a million things to do in NYC. The theater, tall buildings, boat rides, dining. Walking gives you a better sense of the city than a noisy, polluting helicopter ride. If you want to see the city from above, go to Rock Center or The ESB. The increased traffic poses a safety issue. There was a crash on the Hudson that killed 9 and one at South Street where some Italian tourists were killed. Tourists will find other ways to spend their dollars in the city. A noisy hellicopter ride that is heard by people on the Promenade, in the Park, and ricocheting off apartment buildings seems intrusive for their short-lived 7 minute pleasure trip. A trip of a lifetime?! Give me a break, visiting NYC is a trip of lifetime! How about a walk on the Brooklyn Bridge? That view is lovely! Most importantly, it is important to get the facts straight. Commuters do pose a problem, but the increase in traffic is due to the change from Chelsea Piers. This change went into effect April 1st, hence the increase this weekend. Its pretty clear they are tourist rides if you sit on the Promenade for 20 minutes and watch them take off, circle around and land and take off again.
You are making the mistake of politicizing an issue that comes down to noise and quality of life in the neighborhood. I don’t care what they are doing, and who they are up there, I care about the increase in traffic, the noise and its effects on the neighborhood.
A four hour ban is useless. If that was to put that in place it would be in the middle of the day when the fewest amount of residents are affected. The most popular times for these flights are in the afternoons and evening. The same time that most residents would like to enjoy a walk on the promenade or a stroll through the park. Tourist helicopters and residential living are simply incompatible. The Mayor and the EDC need to admit that moving tourist flights to the east river was a terrible idea, and cancel them outright. They are completely unnecessary. Anyone that can’t have the “Trip of a lifetime” in NYC without flying in a helicopter needs to have their head examined.
“The Hudson River Park sued the tourist companies because of the noise, and won.”
Noise may in fact be why the Hudson River Park sued, but this sentence reads like noise is also why the lawsuit was successful, which is incorrect. Language in the Hudson River Park Trust Act was key to the legal victory and there is nothing comparable here.
That clarification notwithstanding, I agree with the sentiment (if I may paraphrase) that a ban on tourist helicopters would benefit many while disappointing few.
Spoken like a true Wall Street creep Reggie.
Please go to:
http://bit.ly/aExnhw
for more information about what you can do and please call 311 to lodge a complaint.
Two words: laser pointers!
I agree that something has to be done about the increased traffic. I feel like I am living in a war zone. I live in Dumbo..I’ll take the noise from the Manhattan Bridge subways any day! It’s almost impossible to have the windows open.
I was also disappointed to find that sitting out in the new BB Park yesterday, enjoying the sun with the Sunday paper, was not nearly as pleasant as it could have been with the helicopter drone. It seemed there was a helicopter in the sky whenever I looked up, and the noise was constant.
I found the direct line to Patricia Ornst, director of Aviation at the EDC, the woman responsible for this decision. 212-312-4226 She clearly believes that “the economic impact” ($) is more important than they environmental impact of NYC citizens. She definitely didn’t want to take the time to listen to my petty complaints. The bottom line is they have to take off and land, and every time they do so it ricochets off the buildings. The east river is much narrower and more widely populated than the Hudson. Her phone # is 212-312-4226. I urge you to call and make a complaint as well as contact the Mayor’s office, Daniel Squadron, Mary M, Bill De Blasio etc etc. I am sitting here on a MONDAY listening to them buzz by about every 2 minutes. This is a drastic increase.
I’m hearing it now as I work. This is terrible!
Something needs to be done to stop this. All day everyday.
I am also on Willow St facing the water with the window open. I can hear helicopters, but it’s not as loud as idling trucks or the occasional visit of that guy on the Harley-Davidson. My 1 year old has been asleep near said window for 2 hours.
haha babies can sleep through anything, and they don’t have to do accounting. My concerns aren’t as much about my personal annoyance in my abode, but the general change in atmosphere in the neighborhood, on the Promenade and in the Park..public spaces where more people other than myself are affected. I also wonder how the folks working in lower Manhattan are feeling about this change?
4 hours of quiet time and 20 hours of noise? Who calls that a deal? It’s not just about the new park – it’s about BH and DUMBO being subjected to the constant buzz from ‘copters carrying commuters, tourists, police or news media.
Are you sure all those helicopters are for tourists? In Bay Ridge which is located further south on the Narrows by the water, it’s primary the NYPD helicopters which create noise (and fly way too low). I’ve seen those noisy copters hover for as long as a half hour over a site and without the searchlight scanning, these flights seem more like joy rides than police business.
Those cop helicopters also seem to be especially ubiquitous on nice, sunny days — like today, for instance.
According to Liberty Helicopter Tours Website:
“As of April 1st 2010 All New York City Helicopter Sightseeing Tours will be conducted from the Downtown Manhattan Heliport located at Pier 6 & the East River. Thank you and enjoy your flight.”
and…
“the largest helicopter sightseeing and charter service in the Northeast. Liberty Helicopters is currently the only authorized helicopter sightseeing company in New York City”
Not all helicopters are tourist flights. Some are NYPD or traffic choppers – they’re not part of this conversation.
We’re talking commuter and tourist flights. And the plan we propose includes NO night flights for tourist choppers AND a 4 hour per day quiet period.
I can see these helicopters. They are not NYPD. The BHA is on this, but they need our support. Please call Patricia Ornst, director of Aviation at the EDC, the woman responsible for this decision 212-312-4226. I actually was put through to her when I called 311 or email her at patricia.ornst@nycedc.com and please cc: the BHA at info@thebha.org
Maybe I just live on the other side of the neighborhood, but I haven’t
noticed any helicopters.
The BHA proposal IMHO is overbroad. There needs to be a sane counter proposal. Hence this thread.
From this conversation on all sides, BHB will formulate a formal proposal.
To do that we need your help. Keep the conversation going!
Here is a video that was shot from the Promenade over a 15 minute period this Saturday. I don’t think there is any kind of reasonable compromise that involved allowing non-stop tourist traffic. As you can see, 15 minutes is bad enough!
People can find other thrills in the city. They don’t need to take helicopter rides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWvs__BEInU
I think a 4-hour ban too narrow. Could tourist and commuter flights be
limited to 1 each per hour during the day, and none at night?
The call for a complete ban on tourist helicopters at the DMH is consistent with a heliport master plan study released by the Giuliani administration in 1999. The study analyzed the operations of all three heliports operating in Manhattan, and recommended the prohibition of signseeing at City-owned heliports. A Helicopter Oversight Committee was established and was to be chaired by EDC. The committee was to review heliport operating practices and helicopter activity levels and investigate public concerns regarding potential noise and safety issues. Its purpose at the time was to achieve a balance between local helicopter efficiency, safety requirements, and the local communities’ quality of life concerns. We know of no such oversight committee under the Bloomberg Administration.
Following the August 8. 2009 mid air collision over the Hudson River, the City Council held an oversight hearing in September where every elected official who testified called upon the City to ban tourist helicopters from the skies above NYC.
Today, the DMH is the only heliport that remains open to sight-seeing helicopters and – as has been reported – the flights that were operating out of West 30th were transferred downtown in phases, the last phase having been completed on March 31, according to the Friends of Hudson River Park’s website.
We know that five helicopter companies run flights in and out of the DMH but we do not know the breakdown of users nor do we have the daily totals because nobody has the time here to sit on a bench and count them. Residents report that they are constantly overhead, hence “a war zone” atmosphere.
The BHA requested operations data from the NYCEDC for the DMH in order to understand just what is involved there. How many flights are logged in and out, and for what purpose? We still don’t have that answer. We also asked NYC EDC to arrange for the DEP to take noise readings inside apartments where people trying to work at home (let alone sleep or socialize) can’t think straight with the perpetual whop-whop. We think the DB level in some people’s apartments is way higher than what would be considered acceptable under the City’s noise code, but it hasn’t been measured yet.
We know that water amplifies sound. And when there are 5 helicopters at a time idling on the helipad across the river, the sound on the Brooklyn shore is very loud. We would love to know what the DB level in Brooklyn Bridge Park is at times like that.
So, yes, 4 hours of “quiet” would be an improvement on the status quo. And an outright ban on non-essential helicopter flights would result in a much safer and healthier environment for everyone in the City.
I feel like the Mayors office doesn’t give two $**! about Brooklyn Height’s !
Has anyone considered requiring that Hudson helicopters be required to use whisper mode, like Blue Thunder? That would solve the problem. You’re welcome.
“We know that five helicopter companies run flights in and out of the DMH but we do not know the breakdown of users nor do we have the daily totals because nobody has the time here to sit on a bench and count them. Residents report that they are constantly overhead, hence “a war zone” atmosphere. ”
I am wondering if the BHA can rally some of the many people that find time to volunteer for the Home Tour to do this. You could easily break it up in 2 hour shifts. I would be happy to participate as well. The BHA just needs to get the word out. They do a great job marketing the Home Tour, maybe some of these larger neighborhood issues could be addressed with a similar level of enthusiasm.
Zburch the bhb is the new bha and they are effective in getting the word out
Indeed. The BHB has been much more effective than the BHA. Sometimes I feel like the BHA is more concerned with tearing down yard sale signs than addressing larger nabe issues. Cause you know, a flyer stapled to a telephone pole is so much more offensive than those silly plastic covered notices with pretty bows on them tied to wrought iron fences! It would be great to use flyers to get the word out about this new development, but the BHA association would just tear them down!
I’ve been thinking about the petition. The tours operate from 9AM to 7PM, so “No nighttime flights” isn’t really a concession by them. I would be more willing to support a four hour window for flights, say if they were only allowed to fly 10AM-2PM. That seems like a time that would have the lowest impact on the promenade and the park. I could maybe live with four hours of droning in my apt.
Drew,
I said the same thing at the top of these comments. Comment # 5, specifically.
Stepping out of the subway the other night, I was hit by this wall of roar blown/sucked into Clark Street from the heliport. This is changing the whole atmosphere of our “leafy, quiet” neighborhood.— This new NYC EDC arrangement raises so many questions. What was the Mayor thinking when he allowed his EDC to make this arrangement and was at the same time working to obtain (as of 3/22) the stewardship of the new Brooklyn Bridge Park? And had he forgotten also about the impact on Governors Island? The FAA representative speaks of millions of $s in revenue for the City — from tourists, yes, but from helicopter tours? Tourists will still come without such tours. How do taxes locals pay compare to the revenue from such flights? Chances are that the tourists visiting our new “world-class” park will be more numerous than the ones taking the sightseeing flights. Won’t they be appalled at the lack of environmental consciousness that the helicopter traffic exemplifies? There are far fewer tourists and heliport operators/pilots than Brooklyn/Manhattan residents and users of BBPark, Promenade and Governors Island. Isn’t their quality of life more important than a few minutes’ thrill of a few tourists? Or the profit of helicopter operators? One could go on and on… And then there is the safety issue. In their approach to the heliport, many copters fly low over residential streets. So far, the 5 accidents in 5 years happened over water; what if one comes down over Clark Street or Montague Street? As to the petition, wouldn’t the heliport operator object to only 4 hours of tour flights or, if he agreed, want the down time when there are fewer anyway, 10 AM to 2 PM?
There will be a press conference TOMORROW, Friday, April 9th at 10:30 am at the Downtown Manhattan Heliport. This was planned by our elected officials (including Senator Squadron) to bring attention to the helicopter issue (noise, safety).
Tell others you know who are interested. Having a “critical mass” there will be useful.
Downtown Manhattan Heliport- Pier 17 in lower Manhattan, located on South street northeast of Broad street, across from the ACLU building and the New York Vietnam War Veterans Memorial Park
The dude on news said that they bring in 40 million for the city, I would like to see the actual tax rolls for these companies. According to Liberty’s website they fly 160,000 people a year, averaging high at $200 per, that is 32 million GROSS. Multiply that by sales tax and you get 2,760,000. Of course there may be rental fees and there are other companies, but they are the largest. I would like to see proof of that 40M #. They are going to lose that pretty quickly if this continues and businesses move out of the fly zone. Jersey anyone? I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to see that the city could potentially lose that and more as companies and people move away from the noise. Good luck building any more real estate in the area, I am already considering a move.
Finally made it to Pier 1 this evening with my daughter. Loved the space, hated the drone. Homer, I appreciate you middle-ground approach to the helicopter issue, but it’s way way over the top. I wish we had as many taxi’s zipping through our neighborhood as we have whirly-birds overhead.
“The dude on news said that they bring in 40 million for the city”
zburch, did you notice that “for the city” was a tacked-on phrase put in his mouth by the interviewer? I agree with you… it appears to be the gross, not taxes.
About this petition. While I appreciate the spirit of evenhandedness that Homer Fink exhibits in his rallying effort, I decline to sign a petition that takes as self-evident that helicopter tour operators “deserve to make a living”, which is not founded in logic or ethics, and worse, a petition that proposes a “short quiet period”, which would seem to be a solution that one would accept only after losing the battle.
We are under vibratory assault, and we have not yet begun to fight!
David – hate the noise so much but why shouldn’t helicopters be allowed to operate on some level? Clearly, there needs to be a conversation started about how to eliminate the bulk of it – but I don’t see how that happens by assuming the helicopter operators DON’T deserve a living. And? This is an issue, according to the BHA that’s been going on for years with an “all or nothing” attitude. So – How’s that been working out so far?
This really is an all-or-nothing issue, actually…If it’s okay for helicopter tours to operate out of the downtown heliport, why not out of the west 30th street hudson river heliport? Why did they shut that one down? With only one operating heliport, doesn’t this pose a greater noise problem and greater danger than if the burden was shared across multiple heliports?
Either reopen another heliport, or shut down the tours.
My understanding is that the 30th St heliport was illegal under the terms of the Hudson River Park. There was some sort of grandfathering period as well as a stay on eviction while various suits were litigated.
Q – what about reopening the 30th street heliport or limiting runs? All or nothing just seems awfully freshman dorm to me. At least before a conversation has even been attempted.
The 30th St Heliport has been litigated ad nauseum. The city & tourist helicopter businesses lost, repeatedly. Now, the city could have shut down the business, or moved it to one of the other heliports aside from Wall Street/DMH, but instead moved it to DMH.
The thing I’d like to know is how they were able to shift this to the DMH with no apparent notice to the community (I thought I was relatively plugged in, maybe the notice was posted in a closet behind a sign “Danger: Tiger” or something). No EIS, no noise impact study, nothing.
I mean, to be a bit snide, the city is allegedly beholden to Wall Street. The bankers and traders and the rest of the existing customer base at DMH can’t be too happy having to share the helipads with …tourists. What’s the economic impact if the Masters of the Universe can’t flit between East Hampton and Wall Street?
Jane: I am decades past being a freshman, if you were wondering.
I already put up with noise from:
The BQE (imposed on this neighborhood by Robert Moses before I arrived);
Trucks coming from and going to the BQE;
Police choppers and news choppers where they may be;
Garbage trucks public & private;
Street cleaning machines (though not lately?);
Fire trucks;
Fresh Direct, UPS, USPS, & Fed Ex trucks;
Drunken night-revelers;
and Random alarms (sooo much better now than some years ago).
I do not believe that an unnecessary service such as helicopter tour operator has a right to bring so much discomfort to so many for the pleasure of a relative few. The same goes for helicopter business shuttles.
Neighborhood construction & renovation
… is another one.
…that belonged in the list above.
My suggestion for copter replacement:
http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Vehicles/Images/87-6624.gif
OK, serious now, of course regulation is imperative. Why does noise pollution always seem to get short shrift when in fact it has as much to do with one’s sense of well being, living in a neighborhood, as other “quality of life” issues?
epc, I think you mean “Beware of the Leopard”
Answer is simple….MOVE you whining liberal pricks…you live in Brooklyn and bought a house next to a heliport!
Helione, dumb person should I say, many of us lived there before this chopper thing went insanely busy.
Sure Helione, where do you live? I’ll move in right next door.
A helicopter has been hovering low for at least 30 minutes over the nabe this morning (6:30)so I called 311. As usual I was told they could not take the complaint, so I asked to register a complaint that they would not take my complaint about helicopter noise. They said they were going to send it to the EDC, so I don’t feel that will really go anywhere, right? Then, I had to ask specifically to send the complaint to the Mayor’s office, which they took. Totally infuriating, but in order to get it to the Mayor one must…Make a complaint about not being able to make a complaint, then specify the Mayor’s office as well before they get you off the line, and one must be fairly insistent on doing so because clearly they don’t want to take it. They are trying to avoid the issue by pushing it to the EDC and not registering complaints through 311 because it uses their time and resources. Keep them on the line and force them to take something, anything and be sure it is sent to the Mayor.
OK, that is pretty funny. I noticed on this page google has selected 3 ads for New York helicopter tours. . . if you click through they often have to pay for the clicks depending on their media buy.