BHA Joins Push for City-Wide 20mph Speed Limit

By on April 26, 2014 11:20 pm in Government, News, Traffic

The Brooklyn Heights Association, having advocated successfully for the designation of the Heights as a “slow zone” with a 20 mph speed limit and speed bumps on streets, has now joined with Families for Safe Streets, Transportation Alternatives, and other civic and advocacy groups, to urge a city-wide default speed limit of 20 mph (higher limits could be posted for “larger Streets and arterial roads”). Given Albany’s strangle-hold on the City, this can’t be done by local government, but requires action by the State Legislature. Accordingly, the BHA is asking concerned residents to join in a “lobby day” in Albany to urge the Legislature to take action. Round trip bus tickets for the event, costing $10, can be reserved here.

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  • Giacomo

    Sweet fancy Moses. I hope these hipster whiners get bored with turning this once great city into a suburb and just move to one already. (25 yrs crossing the city streets unscathed and counting). Here’s a tip…put your devices away and look where you’re going.

  • ClaudeScales

    The pedestrians who’ve been killed or injured crossing streets haven’t been hipsters looking at their “devices”; they’ve been the elderly and children. One Heights resident, a woman in her forties and mother of two, was killed while on the sidewalk by a vehicle that jumped the curb.

  • Jorale-man

    I’m glad to see the Brooklyn Heights Association taking up this cause. Far too many drivers treat the Heights as their personal NASCAR course.

    It’s funny how any time there’s an effort to improve the quality of life in NYC, a certain breed of old-timers professes to put their foot down and say things should never, ever change. Pedestrian deaths aren’t something we should be holding onto as a positive symbol of the city’s past.

  • BrooklynCoffeeLover

    Please tell me your definition of a hipster. After you do that, look at the types of individuals that have been hit by cars in NYC.

  • BrooklynCoffeeLover

    Especially Hicks. That street is a race course for amateurs.

  • AEB

    Agree with the limit. I lived in Manhattan for about sixty years before coming to BH. I never felt in danger from speeding cars until I arrived here. Trying to cross Henry requires that one pause and look and look again for oncoming vehicles, which barrel towards one from–where?–the BQE exit? A midblock crossing is particularly dicey.

    In any case, speed bumps would be just the thing.

  • Giacomo

    A “mid block crossing” isn’t there a name for that? Oh yeah. Jay walking.
    And guess I cross a different Henry & Hicks street everyday…”barreling”? “NASCAR”? You’re seriously saying that in the time it takes to turn your head from side to side speeding cars magically appear? Of course I knew that poor woman who was killed would be brought up. You can make it 5 miles an hour, but that’s not gonna stop a careless or distracted driver.
    I used “hipster” as a blanket term for people who can’t take responsibility and act sensibly in an urban environment so it’s the city not their irresponsible behavior that must change. The ones who leave there car and apt doors unlocked or the purse on a stroller at Trader Joes and are shocked. Shocked! When they are robbed. I could give a laundry list but many readers know what I mean. Responsible laws and limits that make sense are one thing. I just quite honestly have never experienced this epidemic of nascar speed projectiles making it impossible to cross at the light and look both ways. I really haven’t in my many years traversing the city.

  • ClaudeScales

    Why is a 20 mph limit, with exceptions for “larger streets and arterial roads,” not “responsible” and why does it not “make sense”?

  • David on Middagh

    Giacomo, I think that “midblock” in this case means at an intersection without a crosswalk (moving from the West side of Henry to the East coming from the terminations of Cranberry, Orange, or Pineapple).

  • Eddyde

    It is unnecessary, and it will cost businesses billions in lost revenue.
    Pedestrians and drivers need to watch where they are going, period.

  • petercow

    Un-necessary – based on what? The hundreds of NY’ers killed every year by cars?

    As for billions in lost revenue – your evidence of that is what? … Thought so.

  • petercow

    Guess what – the suburbs are where cars rule. Not the city. The majority of NY’ers don’t even own cars.

    And I was born here, Giacomo- 49 years ago, and as we say here to you newcomers…STFU.

  • petercow
  • Rick

    I have to agree about Hicks Street. Too many drivers see it as a short cut to avoid traffic on the BQE, and are racing down it it as if it is also an expressway.

    I support measures to make it less “convenient” for drivers like that, meaning making the speed limit more appropriate for a residential neighborhood, putting in speed bumps, stop signs, and even reversing the direction of the one-way in some sections.

    Of course, Hicks Street is only one of the streets driven too quickly, but conditions on it are particularly egregious because of the way it can be used as part of the BQE.

    Also, I’m always frequently surprised at the reckless driving by the Access-a-Ride drivers and the school bus drivers.

  • AEB

    Yes, precisely, David.

  • Eddyde

    Okay, I have to walk you through the logic process.

    The current speed limit is 30 mph, if it is reduced city wide to 20 mph and thus the average vehicle speed is reduced by 33% that would slow all vehicle dependent commerce (which are too numerous to list), respectively. But let’s say, the affect is only 20%, slowdown = loss, that would easily add up to billions in lost revenue city wide. Who would make up for that loss? Yeah, the consumer.

    Unnecessary based on, we already have reasonable speed limits in place. We already have laws against distracted driving and J-walking. Better enforcement of these existing laws would go a long way to reduce traffic accidents and deaths. Furthermore, a campaign against distracted walking would also be very helpful.

  • BrooklynCoffeeLover

    I was told the reason there is no speed bump on Hicks is because it’s a fire department street. Lowering speeds on that street won’t do anything since drivers don’t pay attention to the speed anyways and police don’t enforce it.

  • Rick

    So then maybe a solution would be more traffic lights on Hicks. That would slow down general traffic speeds, and fire engines would only need to slow down a bit, and then they’d proceed though the intersection.

  • BrooklynCoffeeLover

    That would probably work Rick, but I am not sure why they haven’t addressed the problem yet. I have only lived in the hood for about 3 years. Not sure if this speeding down Hicks is new or what.

  • Rick

    The holes in your logic are big enough to… well, drive a truck through.

    First, it always helps to read the article before commenting:

    It says:
    “higher limits could be posted for “larger streets and arterial roads”.

    Since most NYC commercial traffic takes place on larger avenues and streets, where the speed limits wouldn’t be reduced, the impact on time-related costs to companies would be much smaller than you suggest.

    Anyway, this kind of argument reminds me of the dire warnings from businesses about how clean air and water legislation was going to drive up costs which would be passed on to consumers. But those increases never came to pass, and business profits did just fine.

    You wrote:
    “Unnecessary based on, we already have reasonable speed limits in place.”

    Why are they reasonable? Because you say they are? A speed limit is not reasonable if it results in the extra deaths of many pedestrians.

  • Rick

    The process of putting in a new traffic light is very hard in New York City! I just remembered this article from the New York Times, from way back in 2002, which also spoke of the problem of speeding on Hicks Street:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/15/nyregion/urban-tactics-this-quest-makes-diogenes-task-look-easy.html

  • MonroeOrange

    I think the issue really is, you can change the law, but without enforcing it, no one will care. I agree, cars speed down hicks st all the time, but be aware those cars are going up to 40mph at a min. and that is already 10mph over the speed limit. So if an individual is not obeying the generous 30mph limit, it would be very foolish to think, all of sudden they are going to obey 20mph!

    Laws are only followed if police enforce it. Does anyone really think the police are going to set up on Hicks St everyday, or even once?

    And i know the response is going to be, that if you make the speed limit lower, drivers will take note of that, blah blah blah…the drivers doing 50mph down a street in BH, won’t obey any laws, as they are already breaking the law now. Its like when a driver blows by me on the highway doing 100mph and weaving, and i high beam them thinking that will make them think about their behavior, and all it does is make them go even faster.

    All drivers should be required to take drivers ed, or some other 6month course, to really drill how home what it means to be responsible. But as long as you the DMV continues to make the ability to get a licence so easy, you are going to continue to have dangerous drivers regardless of the posted speed limit.

  • BrooklynCoffeeLover

    Wow Thanks for passing this along Rick.

  • Giacomo

    Rick you wrote It says:
    “higher limits could be posted for “larger streets and arterial roads”.

    Since most NYC commercial traffic takes place on larger avenues and streets, where the speed limits wouldn’t be reduced, the impact on time-related costs to companies would be much smaller than you suggest.

    It was just reported this week that Atlantic Ave just the kind larger ave you say “could” have higher speeds, is being unilaterally lowered to 25mph from one end to the other and the no car folks are pushing to gauntlet it further with neck downs etc. Bwy and 7th aves have been essentially reduced to ONE lane during biz hours.

  • Eddyde

    First, I did say the impact might not be directly be the same as the speed reduction (it helps if you comprehend the post). But lets say it was only 15 or 10% reduction in efficiency, that would still add up to billions $ lost. Realize that just about everything you consume other than air and tap water is delivered to you by motorized vehicle. It is so ubiquitous in our that any change in efficiency will have a pronounced economic effect.

    The clean air and water act, is a false comparison.

    The speed limits are reasonable because they are based on the safety vs efficiency of traffic, that has been carefully studied for decades.

    Some tertiary streets and secondary streets in highly residential areas might benefit slightly from a reduced speed limit but that’s a far cry from a city-wide 20 mph limit.

  • Eddyde

    You are correct the majority of NY’ers don’t own cars, only about 45% do. Not quite the staggering majority you imagined, huh?

  • Banet

    Or, in my case, crossing the street from Grace Court Alley to Grace Court. There’s no light or stop sign or even a painted crosswalk but clearly the city intended people to cross the street there as they put brand new curb cuts facing onto Hicks on the Grace Court side of the intersection.

    There’s a light just a few car lengths away at Joralemon but the speed with which cars turn from Joralemon onto Hicks they can be upon you before you’ve had a chance to get across the street.

    And then there’s the aformentioned cars flying up Hicks towards Joralemon as if there was some sort of prize involved. Just yesterday, Sunday, I witnessed one car that was looking for parking as it drove up Hicks and therefore slowing down every now and again. The massive SUV behind it clearly thought this was aggregious behavior as the driver laid on the horn repeatedly every time the car slowed down.

    This happened about 4 times between State Street and Joralemon Street until the SUV finally had a enough and floored it and put two wheels up on the sidewalk so it could go around the slower car. Of course, he then blew through the light at Joralemon street. And when I say blew through the light, I mean the car ahead of him was already running the light so when the SUV went through the light there was more than enough time for any one of the dozen people waiting to cross the street to be standing in the middle of the road.

  • Banet

    There actually is one positive change to lowering the speed limit. If and when they DO ticket someone the fine will be twice as much and the number of points goes up from 3 to 4. Two tickets like that and you risk losing your license.

  • Rick

    Asserting that it would cost billions is just spinning figures out of thin air.

    If speed decrease were just applied to smaller streets in residential zones, it would add very little time to most deliveries. And that doesn’t take into account the savings from damage to vehicles and property from accidents, repairs, police at the scene of accidents, court costs, and oh yeah, savings to human life.

    My comparison to the clean air & water act is only to point out how businesses have met every new or proposed environmental law with dire warnings about higher consumer costs which never materialized. Or at least not as a result of those laws.

    But I’m not personally advocating a city-wide reduction in speed limits anyway. Just in Brooklyn Heights, which has a BQE-related traffic problem. Every area in the city is different, and has to be approached as such.

    And every part of NYC is constantly changing. Which is why it is silly to use language like “carefully studied for decades”, as if past research and decisions based on it are now engraved on stone tablets. The DOT is constantly re-evaluating safety vs efficiency of traffic.

    I have no stake in this myself other than as a long-time resident of Brooklyn Heights who has seen the enormous amount of high-speed traffic tearing through this neighborhood getting worse.

  • Rick

    I haven’t seen any stories about the entire length of Atlantic Avenue getting a 25 mph speed limit, but personally I’d be against that.

    Bwy and 7th is such a high-density tourist pedestrian zone these days that I guess their safety is over-riding ease of vehicular traffic.

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