Open Thread Weekend 4/1/11

That is a very sensitive and complex question. I’m far from a legal expert but in the 70’s and early 80’s when violent crime was epidemic in the Heights we did consult several lawyers.

At the time the anaylsis we recieved was:

1) New York state unlike many states DOES NOT have a clear
codified structure of legalally recognized circumstances in which
self defense is justified. The state has no such structure in statute
law. Whats often called “black letter law” Becuse of this when an incident occures its up to a district attorney’s office or later a judge to apply the body of built up CASE law on the subject of self defense. In other words, victims have NO hard law to protect them its all up to prosecutors and judges’ caprise.

This is in stark contrast to many states who, sick and tired of
violent crime against innocent victims, often women or the elderly,
have placed exact clear circumstances under wich deadly force can be used against an assailant. In states where this was done an often immediate very sobering effect has been noticed among
violent thugs. Colorado is a great example of what placing victim’s rights in black letter statute l;aw and taking the decision to persue
victims out of the hands of say, a county prosecutor or a local judge can do for real public safety.

Really, that was one of the goals of the getz case; many wanted to
use the case to FORCE a clear firm landmark court decision on what was and what was not justifyable use of deadly force. They
failed to force a clear court decision but the political damage to the court system who had turned thousands of violent felons
loose many times over was done.

But we stilll dont have a clear central landmark court case and of
course, we dont have a central statute law. So with every case the prosecutors and courts are free, no matter what anyone says, to take a wide range of actions against a victim who has had to defend their life. Wonderful Albany.

This is WHY any good defense attorney urges great care in any
situation which may lead to youre having to defend yourself.
Because in NY state you really DONT have a structure of law to protect you as in in other states.

Generally, I have always been counciled by attorneys that:
1) you must not have provoked the situation
2) There must be a serious real immediate threat to your life
3) There must be no way of escape from the situation outside
of deadly force.
This is a major point, in a lot of states, the violent criminal is
on ery different legal ground that in states like New York. First
of all, in a lot of states THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO RETREAT FROM ASSAULT OR A THREAT TO LIFE. The result
is that there is GREAT CARE taken by the less reputable in society when approaching anyone including a woman or the elderly. First because a LOT of women and elderly are simply armed and unlike places like New York, you dont have to make a run for it to avoid wiles of some later on the scene prosecutor.
Anyone who has walked the streets of say, Denver or Houston late at night knows the stark difference in how bold criminals are
there as opposed to midtown manhattan.

But because of the legal structure here and the political atmosphere I urge very great care to avail yourself of the BEST legal advise before any kind of possible incident.

I would apporach, if I can remember, the, refuse to be a victim program of the NRA I’m sure thier web site still has the contact information. When Betty Gotbaum decided to force all the precint community councils to show the Michael Douglas anti self defense firm we demanded to have equal time, a certian neighborhood association got very upset and the Bklyn Height press did a MAJOR story on the pro-gun/pro victim rights evening at the 84th pct council metteing and the general subject of ownership of guns in the Heights which was peaking right then due to the amount of violent crime. To represent victim’s rights the New York State Pistol and Rifle Association sent Jerry Priser of the West Side
Gun Range in Manhattan who brought the house down with a great presentation. I guess I would also approach the Gun Owners of America for thier views on what is the current state of
the law in NY state.

But I strongly urge to strictly follow the guidence of fully qualified legal council at all times…..

Its a LOT more complex than that….

First of all there are two things which should be said:

1) there are certian people who should NEVER have a gun or EVER be involved in any kind of personal defense situation if at all humanly possible: POLITIAL OR SOCIAL activists should NEVER become involved in ANY firearms or self defense situation if at all possible because of the VERY REAL posibility of a POLITICALLY MOTIVATED prosecution in the very hostile legal and political atmosphere of NY City.

2) ANYONE seeking to insure thier situation in a defense of life
situation should PRIOR to any situation or incident seek the BEST
POSSIBLE legal advise from a COMPETENT legal defense council with REAL experience in defense-of-life use of a firearm cases AND a defense council who is PERSONALLY SYMPATHE-
TIC TOWARDS THE OWNERSHIP AND USE OF FIREARMS BY PRIVATE CITIZENS.

To this end, I STRONGLY suggest that you contact the following
organizations for guidence;

The National Rifle Association; Refuse To Be A Victim Program:
1-800-861-1166 and 703-267-1394 and also try 1-800-672-3888
refuse@nrahq.org

The New York State Pistol and Rife Association:
518-272-2654
(they have very effective programs-)

Gun Owners of America:
703-321-8585

You should seek council from ALL of the above organizations.

In previous situations in the 84th Pct. when, for example, homeowners in the Vinegar Hill area right next a very high
crime area were being seriously threatened by violent crime,
just a few residents agreed to be put in contact with the NRA
refuse to be a victim program. How fast do you think the word
of that got out to the street just a few blocks away…Despite
any denials from those not sympathetic, the effect of the
“refuse” material and message was immediate and VERY beneficial….even if you ONLY count the morale and how
legally and street smart it made certain community members
I saw this program work albeit through quiet and mostly private
avenues, and I KNOW it has real, positive effects.

Nabeguy didn’t mention that a lot of the stuff in front of his house was in Francais. Le livre de Nabeguy est… Now that it’s rained, it all academic.

I was at Pier One over the weekend. Let’s see: people riding bikes on the pathways and on the grass? Check. Dogs on the grass? Check. People smoking and throwing their butts on the pathways? Check. No Park Enforcement Officers anywhere? Check. Thong Man aka Banana Guy exposing himself to our views? Notably absent. Guess it’s not summer yet.

Does anyone know a Herbert who lives on Montague Street? Is
the man still around?

If this “sketchy man” in the sweatpants is a minor , Ie: 17 years of age, as he was described to be between 17-20.. then he should be reported ASAP.. he could be a run away. EITHOR way… he should be reported as a suspicious person. It doesn’t matter if he has not done anything, he needs to be put on the map. Why wait until/even if he deos somthing? What’s the pharse in the subway??… ” If you see something, say something”. Where can he be reported? I don’t think it’s safe for someone to be roaming around scaring people especially in a neighborhood full of children and families as well as people walking alone at any hour. He does not seem like a safe ticket. Let’s try to figure out a way to put him on the map with the local police.

Sounds like a bit of a moral panic about the person in sweatpants. Maybe he is a jogger winding down. If he is the latest homeless person with psychiatric issues, why assume he is about to commit an atrocity? Maybe he needs a sandwich. The poor and homeless are so stigmatized. No blog in another neighborhood would make such a big deal. Alarm, alarm, a poor person in our yuppie midst. Get out the pitchforks and the torches!

@heightsguy, in total agreement. When the “bogeyman” mentality gets the better of us, we all lose.We all have tongues in our heads, and, hopefully, some of us will find the courage to use them to approach rather than shun the less fortunate in our midst. You’d be surprised how a simple “hello” can dispel fear on both sides of the equation.