Open Thread Wednesday

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  • AK

    Since over 6 months they keep the lights on at the vacant Clark Pet Store at 57 Clark ST. Will they ever turn it off again?

  • Peter Scott-Thomas

    2 "accidents waiting to happen…."

    Neither one of them is new or hard to grasp, but I suspect that absolutely nothing of substance has happened on either, and inaction makes the 2 bad situations WORSE.

    1) "Southern" access to BBP. The Park's growth in visitors, popularity, etc. probably surprises everybody but those of us who have loved it since "day 1." By design – with some good and some awful consequences – it's overseen by an almost totally opaque body, and while they seem to have done nothing awful, they have NOT dealt with the issue I raise.

    Joralemon St. is simply inadequate as the MAIN route into the Park South of Middagh, and Atlantic Avenue is not safe. I'm convinced that "But we can't do anything until all the work on the BQE concludes" is tantamount to "when the Messiah comes/returns," i.e., essentially a promise that nobody alive today will see any real improvement.

    2) The BQE. I'll be brief. Yesterday's "Hooray" story about reduced truck traffic there contained the nugget that a $650 fine is "automatically" levied on overweight trucks.

    Ask yourself what the value of the cargo is "at retail." I'll guess that for the worst offenders, it's in the $1 Million vicinity. Especially given that there's no good alternative – not even CLOSE – this just ensures that everything on those trucks will get marked up 1-2% … so that you and I pay for those fines.

    Fines are supposed to CHANGE BEHAVIOR – the DOT has always been an embarrassment of an agency, and I it clearly prizes "looking like they care" over doing anything that will upset ANYONE behind a wheel.

  • MaggieO

    1. There are changes proposed to the pedestrian experience at that Atlantic Ave entrance to BBP. They're part of the Atlantic Ave safety improvements and while I can't say off the top of my what what they are specifically they do represent at least some movement on improving that entry. Regarding Joralemon, as long as the 2/3/4/5/R stop at Borough Hall, folks are going to use Joralemon to access the park. It's not ideal, with narrow and uneven sidewalks, but I'm not sure what BBP folks could do about that. Ultimately I'd like to see a Montague entrance that connects to the promenade but if that' happens in the next 30 years I'll be pleasantly surprised.
    2. I'm a little confused here, you say that fines are supposed to change behavior and the article shows pretty clearly that behavior has changed. Obviously there's room for improvement and increased fines should play a role. I'd love to see more data – how far overweight are the trucks that are getting fined? Could the fine structure be %overweight based so that the larger trucks bear a larger burden? I think DOT does a lot wrong, but at least this report shows proof of concept and a clear behavioral change that can be built upon.

  • Andrew Porter

    Trolleybus, corner of Fulton and Joralemon, in the 1950s, it says, though it's actually Adams Street:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b51f5e01ee1e8c6c799eee84d58257eeaaa6767b988853ea759f4e279053d157.jpg

  • Andrew Porter

    What's really telling to me is that when truckers found out they were going to be fined for using the (illegal) BQE, they changed their behavior, found different routes.

  • Peter Scott-Thomas

    Thanks for your thoughts!

    Candidly, I do not trust the DOT's numbers, and you can see how very easy it is to convey the false impression that "We've got this!"

    Isn't it self-evident that any re-routing is by the "barely over-weight" trucks that will – MAYBE – be able to make turns like the one off Cadman Plaza West onto Middagh Street? NOT the humongous ones which CANNOT!

    This is a band-aid on an open wound. The metaphor is imperfect, of course, because sepsis would have killed the patient long ago – in terms of an injury. HERE, we're just facing 2 godawful realities – feel free to pick the one YOU prefer:

    a) We have a catastrophic failure – more than likely right on what's hanging over Furman St. during some rush hour; or

    b) it's not catastrophic, but NYC (yes, BHeights disproportionately) pays the inordinate price one ALWAYS has to pay when you kick a can down the road for umpty-ump years.

    That price, of course, will be an amalgam of "NOW how do supermarkets get anything like adequately re-stocked?" AND "How many trillions – and from where – will it take to remediate?" AND "What does traffic look like for the better part of a decade in NYC?"

    I wish I had the expertise to weigh the complex and costly SOLUTIONS, but I don't. What I DO know is that the piper WILL get paid, and the $650 fine per truck is probably on the order of a $10 fine per day if you ignored every parking regulation!

    2) (well, the other – BBP access – issue) Yes, the (mostly small) changes re Atlantic Avenue are both welcome and criminally overdue. But there's next to no relief in terms of BBP access in them, and you watch how even that fails to get implemented, because the DOT is just like a company that talks about its commitment to both "community" and its shareholders. What looks like even-handedness is anything but, when the 2 are in opposition, one to the other. Walk or ride a bike on either side of Atlantic near Hicks St. The nearby on-ramp is like one's carotid artery: yes, it's lower speed and volume than the BQE/aorta, but it's the cause of many a death (and stroke!)

    I come out on that where you do on Montague access: "If anything (meaningful) happens there in the next 30 years, I'll be pleasantly surprised."

  • clarknt67

    First drafts or park design included an elevator from the promenade. It would be nice to see that revisited. Although it might create a pedestrian death zone crossing Furman.

  • Jorale-man

    Safety/crowding aside, the Joralemon St. park entrance is just dirty, loud and unwelcoming. Between the bird droppings and copious trash under the BQE to the constant roar of traffic and horns, it's a sad way to welcome people to the park's glories.

    You'd think the park overseers would try and bring some order to the situation. I know it's not their property technically, but they should work with the city on at least cleaning things up there and maybe planting some more greenery at the entrance.

  • RickP

    I remember them — always called them electric buses.

    I also dimly remember trolleys on tracks, somewhere in Brooklyn, around 1955. Google says the last one stopped running in 1956.

  • TeddyNYC

    I think the promenade will first have to be replaced along with the rest of the structure before we get a new way (elevator?) to access BBP from the promenade.

  • Andrew Porter

    Streetcars were everywhere in Brooklyn and NYC. Here's a postcard showing streetcar tracks on Court Street:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d300cbdc3a865525912c09b7339d3fdf9b6cef247681097986fe2ebe41acf7f3.jpg

  • Monday morning rant

    Ok, so I have a little rant for Monday morning on what's ticking me off.

    #1 – Small Rant: cars on pierrepont illegally parked on the opposite side making it hard for trucks to get by and resulting in honking — especially between Hicks and Henry, there is only parking on one side of the street. Ticket agents rejoice and make a statement with your ticketing super ticketing powers!!

    #2 – Large Rant: why is the Clark Street subway station so scummy and dirty. Who is responsible for this? I think it's the landlord, no? Have they thought about putting in a garbage can, sweeping the floor, fixing the door so it doesn't have to be held open by a way too old cardboard box. I can't think of a subway station that is much dirtier than this at the entrance. I think it's time that we put a little more focus on this.

    #3 – Extra Medium Rant – why does Zipcar still get allocated parking spots on the street. The Zipcar solution has long since gone from being a cheap alternative to being just as expensive as everything else. Moreover, it's owned by Avis/Budget, so why can't they use their existing facilities rather than taking up precious parking

    #4 – Medium to Large Rant – Why is it that Clark's restaurant can take up so much of the sidewalk that it becomes impassible for more than one person. My elderly parents almost tripped because there was so much congestion there.

    #5 Tiny Rant — When will Trader's Joe fix that railing that got pummeled by a car. It's been what 10- 12 months since the accident happened?

    Lincoln Restler / BHA – what say you? (and thank you for getting changes made to Atlantic Avenue crossings — looking forward to seeing that in action)

  • Andrew Porter

    I complained to the BHA and to 311 about how much space Clark's takes up on Henry Street, and my complaint to the city was closed when they said that there was no problem. Really! Extremely disappointed by this. Maybe Restler could help.

  • Andrew Porter

    Financial woes but ultimately good news for all three branches of Alice's Tea Cup:

    https://ny.eater.com/2024/8/1/24211275/alices-tea-cup-closing-comeback-new-owner