Gravel at Brooklyn Bridge Park Pier 1 – Good?

By on August 13, 2010 5:36 pm in Brooklyn Heights

They’ve laid down some gravel over the blacktop on pathways at Brooklyn Bridge Park Pier 1.  TK Small mentioned it earlier in the week and brought up the fact that it could pose a challenge for strollers and those in unpowered wheelchairs.  We found it to be a little tough on our tender feet – even in Doc Martens.  How about you?

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  • my2cents

    This discussion is more heated than the ground zero mosque issue! It’s just gravel, folks.

  • bklyn20

    Your Mom, there are PLENTY of over-entitled parents in our neighborhood, not to mention the many merely entitled parents, I dare say that they can be found all across the USA, and possibly even Europe — perhaps they are complaining there about gravel walkways too!

    It is NOT “entitled,” however, to want to access a park that costs gazillions of our tax dollars without risk to life and liimb — as is the case at both Pier 1 and especially Pier 6. Theoretically at least , experts designed this park and should have ironed out the
    park access issues for ALL visitors. The Americans with Disabilities Act is the law, by the way.

    Yeah, yeah, someone will say,but the DOT is responsible for the entry points. Why didn’t BBP management call DOT and work this out in advance? As far as the gravel walkways, why not take care of it ahead of time? How about a test drive for strollers, and different wheelchairs? Wheeled walkers? Wow, senior citizens who want to get out of the house and into the sun. How dare they?

    Taking care of your own basic safety, and that of your family, in order to use a PUBLIC park’s amenities is common sense.

  • Matthew Parker

    Just sayin’, but isn’t it premature to be getting our collective undies in a bundle over the gravel, considering the gravel paving job isn’t even completed yet? What many have been worried about is an intermediate step of placing a lot of loose gravel on top of tar and waiting a few days for it to set.

    I was in the park earlier this afternoon and saw several construction crews scooping up the loose gravel that was left in place for a few days to set.

    Now that the gravel is set, it much more compact, less dusty, and likely easier to navigate for feet and wheels. The excess gravel is being swept up and scooped up. The result is a pretty firm surface.

    I was over at Pier 6 this evening and experienced what the finished product is like, and it’s nothing like what we’ve seen while the surfacing was a work in progress on Pier 1 over the past few days.

    I’ll be curious to hear the opinions once the path surface installation is finally completed on Pier 1.

  • http://www.tksmall.com TK Small

    Since I first read about this situation while I was away for the weekend, I was annoyed but wanted to reserve comment until I actually saw and rolled on the gravel. This afternoon I took a look and simply put it was dreadful! What really bugs me (and many others) is the complete lack of accountability and “middle finger” that this installation suggests.

    The law and regulations covering this issue are really quite clear. It took me about 2-3 minutes to find the exact section of the regulations and is found at A.D.A.A.G. Section 4.5

    “4.5 Ground and Floor Surfaces.

    4.5.1* General. Ground and floor surfaces along accessible routes and in accessible rooms and spaces including floors, walks, ramps, stairs, and curb ramps, shall be stable, firm, slip-resistant, and shall comply with 4.5. (See Appendix Note)

    The first paragraph of the appendix goes on to state in relevant part:

    A4.5.1 General. People who have difficulty walking or maintaining balance or who use crutches, canes, or walkers, and those with restricted gaits are particularly sensitive to slipping and tripping hazards. For such people, a stable and regular surface is necessary for safe walking, particularly on stairs. Wheelchairs can be propelled most easily on surfaces that are hard, stable, and regular. Soft loose surfaces such as shag carpet, loose sand or gravel, wet clay, and irregular surfaces such as cobblestones can significantly impede wheelchair movement.”

    But apart from my personal discomfort, when I was down at Pier 1 today, there were at least eight people working to remove the excess gravel, using giant pieces of equipment brought in from Hicksville Long Island. Is it any wonder why this park is so damn expensive!?! Specifically, there was a bulldozer/backhoe, a bobcat like machine, and a small dump truck. The operation of the dump truck was particularly pointless and ridiculous. As four workers swept and shoveled gravel into the front bin of the bobcat, the truck gradually inched forward. It would seem that the expense of a driver for the dump truck was completely unnecessary. Again, where is the accountability?

  • http://www.flashlightworthybooks.com Flashlight Worthy

    (Full disclosure, I’m on the board of the Brooklyn Bridge Park Conservancy. Not the organization that builds and operates the park, but that arranges a large portion of the programming in the park such as the education programs, free kayaking, Thursday night movies, etc.)

    Matthew Parker, thank you for being a voice of reason.

    As I pointed out about 30 comments ago, this gravel is a work in progress. The finished result can be experienced on southern extreme of the waterfront in front of the Pier 6 playground — more or less where one boards the Governor’s Island Ferry. Walk there and you’ll find no dust and no loose gravel — just a stable, much-cooler-than-black-asphalt surface.

    While the loose gravel is clearly an inconvenience for some, the alternative would likely have been to draw out the process, noise and mess by staging the paving in multiple portions… close entire pathways while the gravel sets into the sun-heated tar. Since they count on the hot sun the soften the tar and want to inconvenience as few people as possible, I think doing it all in one fell swoop during the dog days of Summer makes a lot of sense. (Not to mention it’s likely less expensive to do it all once than in multiple small portions.)

    Let’s all give the park builders some time to get their job done — after all, a world-class park can’t be built in a day.

    -Peter

  • ABC

    Okay then.

    I prefer the smooth black asphalt over the gravel on Pier 6 where one boards the ferry. It’s easier to walk on, ride on, and push a stroller on and will be easier to clear in the winter. The gravel isn’t as bad at Pier 6 but it’s still hard to – say – turn a stroller around on.

    I guess I don’t get the need for it. Why go to the expense? To make it cooler? Considering that the park has almost no shade — the playgrounds are completely without shade — I can’t really see they cared about the coolness.

  • ABC

    And there is certainly loose gravel on Pier 6. Stand in line for the Gov Island Ferry and watch the kids toss the loose rocks into the river. It’s not as bad as Pier 1 but you can’t say there is no loose gravel on Pier 6.

  • bklyn20

    Mr. Parker, you may be right about how the gravel will settle. But why didn’t the BBP management communicate, even with some simple signage, before the new loose gravel went down? Why did so many angry parents of burned toddlers have to protest before the silver domes were removed? Why did the Brooklyn Bridge Park Defense Fund have to write to all the electeds and the DOT before BBP management addressed the dangerous access points at Piers 1 & 6?

    It’s because, despite the new ingredient of City Parks involvement, which should require some sort of public process for many of the changes in the park, the BBP management doesn’t have to listen to anyone’s protests. They can smile nicely and then do whatever they want to do. They make a faux pas — in this case, literally — and there’s no need for a remedy. The people running this project keep getting away with this, and I and more than a few others find it infuriating.

    Any idea if we got a refund on the $84,000 spent on the teutonic tot toasters? We’ll probably never get an answer on that one, either.

  • yourmom

    so that i am clear, i think its terrible that the gravel makes it harder for disabled people to use the park. my brother is disabled so i understand the difficulty. I think some other people just want to whine about themselves, and im tired of hearing it.

  • http://bivforbrooklyn.com Doug Biviano

    When I read TK Small’s posts about the “park” designers and managers that simply refuse to acknowledge accessibility as protected by federal law for a significantly large portion of the New York’s population, it infuriates me.

    We have witnessed this same type of willful negligence in refusing to acknowledge the dangers at Pier 1’s domes that resulted in serious but preventable injuries and burns to children. I have written Regina Myer about the obvious dangers at Pier 6 playground that are easy to mitigate such as rounding very sharp wood corners in the water park and shielding the base of the pump screw, my own family having witnessed an ambulance taking a child away the second day the playground was open. A video blog was made by BHB based on my letter. In my follow up letters, I addressed accessibility on movie nights. To date, I received a non-answer to my concerns. I would be happy to make the letter available which I received only days ago, months after my initial letter.

    Make no mistake about it. If the executive officers and board of directors at BBPOE/BBPDC ignore issues as important as accessibility and child safety, the writing on the wall should be pretty clear. These folks are simply not accountable, nor are they interested in your concerns.

    The MTA should ring a bell. That’s why, at a hearing this spring, I called the BBP the MPA — the Mayor’s Project Authority. The MPA will play out just like the MTA, unaccountable to the people yet a convenient punching bag for the politicians who actually control the authorities behind the scenes with their appointments. Legally, the BBP MPA is not all that different from the MTA. BBP is not a park, it’s a corporation controlled by a board that does not and will not answer to the public.

    Senator Daniel Squadron and Assemblymember Joan Millman — thanks to Sen. Squadron — have veto power over the luxury skyscrapers to go up at Pier 6. If you want some say in the park, the luxury skyscrapers must be vetoed (think political contributions by developers and condo owners to politicians and appointments to the board like former Sen. Marty Connor). We must get this future center of gravity of park control out of the way now while we can. The new towers will be a corrupting force for sure. They have certainly been a complicating and delaying force to date, driving up costs to obscene levels, resulting in a phased and uncertain completion date.

    Given the abdication of public trust of the BBPDC/BBPOE witnessed thus far, I call upon Sen. Squadron and Assemblywoman Joan Millman to veto the luxury housing immediately and restore some control back to us.

  • Big Dave

    What is meant by Mr. Bivano when he says “luxury skyscrapers”? I thought that any building would remain below the level of 4 stories, in order to keep the view of the Brooklyn Bridge from the Promenade? Is there a bonafide plan for skyscrapers? SKYSCRAPERS? Buildings 60 stories high??!! Anyone know specifics on this? No hyperbole, please. Thanks.

  • bklyn20

    A 16-story and a 30-story tower are planned for the fenced-off areas near Pier 6

    Another tall building is planned for Dumbo, although I don’t recall the exact location at the moment. Maybe John Street? If it’s John St, the Dumbo tower is being built on land owned by Con Ed that donated to Dumbo to try and make amends for ConEd’s years of polluting in Dumbo and Vinegar Hill — there is/was a Con Ed plant in Vinegar Hill by the East River. Sadly, the Dumbo-ites gave the land to the park and got a luxury condo. I think this is all basically correct.

    I may be off by one or two stories (too low, that is) for the Pier 6- adjacent towers.

    The park planners can get away with this because Brooklyn Heights’ Historic District does not extend beyond Furman Street, and because all the tall building are clustered outside the North and South ends of the Promenade.

    I will restrain myself from any editorial comments for the moment.

  • ABC

    I think bklyn20 has it about right. There are to be, at some point, two buildings with 780 condos in them on Pier 1. And a 225-room hotel.

    Would like to point out that these would all be zoned for PS8 as are the 447 condos at One Brooklyn Bridge Park, all of the new condos in Dumbo, and the hundreds of condos that may come out of any conversion of even half of the Witnesses buildings.

    So we’re all glad the city added 7 new classrooms to the school in this current expansion. That should certainly be enough. Right?

  • Big Dave

    Maybe I’m slow…

    – 2 towers over near the Pier 6 playground, south of One Brooklyn Bridge Park building?
    – 2 buildings and a hotel near Pier 1 (presumedly on the land where the buildings were torn down)?
    – another tall one in DUMBO over by the Walentas’ buildings?

    Is there any limit as to the heights of the buildings near Pier 1?

  • bob ciav

    All u cry babies should remember what was there.Mabey they shouldn’t have made a park for you jerks, and kept it abandoned so the riff raff could have hade their own park.Grow up and appricated what u have. I’m a construction worker at the park, and i see people enjoying it every day.

  • ABC

    But Bob, this is not a pony your rich daddy gave you for your birthday. This is something we bought and paid for. If someone came in and renovated your house AND took your money — a lot of money — and wouldn’t listen to you when you wanted to have some say, you’d be pissed too.

    I like this park. I don’t like the process. And I find it infuriating that small things that people have spoken out about (the burning domes, the lack of simple shade, the gravel “improvement”) are met with silence.

    They’re renovating the Walt Whitman Park at a cost of $4.5 million of taxpayer dollars.

    http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?id=34908

    I think that’s too much. How about $2 million on that park and a $2.5 million endowment for PS8? The school could make the final push to be top notch, property values would rise, city makes more money on every sale of every apartment. And we’d have a lovely park, I’m sure.

    Can you imagine if we could talk about things like this?

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