They’ve laid down some gravel over the blacktop on pathways at Brooklyn Bridge Park Pier 1. TK Small mentioned it earlier in the week and brought up the fact that it could pose a challenge for strollers and those in unpowered wheelchairs. We found it to be a little tough on our tender feet – even in Doc Martens. How about you?
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I was on the new surface last night after the Brooklyn Union Gas Reunion Party and it was hard for me, I am disabled I walk with crutches or a cane, to navigate my left foot, my dropped left foot was caught two times on the gravel.
The other day when this topic came up, for some reason I thought it referred to Pier 6. Reading about this has definitely ticked me off! Specifically I asked Regina Myer to explain how the disability access issues were being considered and impliedly who was responsible. Apparently my concerns are being completely ignored. When I get back from my weekend in the Catskills, I will have more to say.
This pisses me off. What are they thinking? I will happily hand my stroller over to Regina Myer to push around the park for a pleasant stroll around the park (especially up that hill) and see what she thinks.
The stupid domes, Pier 6 with all those kids spaces and zero relief from the sun anywhere, this stupid idea… I just don’t think they care at ALL about the users experience.
I was there this morning and surprised by how it covers the entire paved surface of the park. Apart from the (very legitimate) disability access concerns, the surface seemed to be a little impractical. Not awful, I just wonder if they could have come up with something a little more user-friendly, like a soft surface like the running path in Cadman Plaza Park.
I was really happy to see it and love the way it looks. I had been hoping that something like that would be installed–it is like the surfaces in the parks in Paris. I hadn’t considered, though, that it might pose a challenge for disabled individuals and am sorry to hear that.
Well, no more skating for me…jerks.
Aesthetically pleasing, and it will discourage bikers and roller blades.
The gravel paths are problematic for a number of reasons. As mentioned in the post, navigating a stroller (particularly a non-luxury variety) over the paths is quite cumbersome. Similarly, while jogging on the gravel paths is not as difficult as pushing a stroller, it is much less comfortable than jogging on paved paths. As anyone who has frequented the park knows, stroller-pushers and joggers are among the most frequent users of this park. Finally, and most importantly from the perspective of a user of the Pier One Playground, the gravel migrates, polluting the playground and creating (yet another) hazard to small children using the playground. This morning, for example, small pebbles were strewn all over the ground of the playground as well as inside the various structures inhabiting the playground. This playground is clearly designed for small children, for whom pebbles present an obvious choking hazard. What were they thinking? What possible advantage is there to gravel paths? Was this brought to us by the same people who installed the blister domes?
I find it awkward to walk on, and spent half an hour cleaning tar out of my dogs’ paws after a walk down there this afternoon.
TK: what they’ve done, which I didn’t realize initially when I thought it was loose gravel, is tarred the walkways and then placed the gravel atop the tar.
Those of you who were hoping to drive dogs out of the park entirely: congratulations.
There is a considerable amount of loose gravel spilled on the lawns. Gravel hit with a lawnmower becomes a dangerous projectile.
I like the gravel, but my dog doesn’t.
Cats, on the other hand, seem to love gravel. Maybe it could be turned into a big “Cat Run.”
Pain to walk on but easy to maintain. The park designers/landscapers are now fixing the mistakes they made while designing the park (like removing the metal domes/slides that burnet babies – how stupid was that to put them there in the first place!) as well as making some new totally uncalled for changes like the gravel… I guess our taxmoney simply needs to be spent somehow by the city.
I had no idea we had so many “health & safety” fanatics in our midst. This is an obvious improvement, much nice than plan old blacktop.
Looks like an excellent place to play petanque. Time to check the park regulations on that one!
I thought that the asphalt wasn’t attractive, but while the gravel is much more attractive, it isn’t functional.. My dogs no longer want to walk in the park and biking will be atrocious. Who ever heard of a gravel bike path?
I agree that there have been some critical design lapses with regards to this park.
Who said it’s a bike path? It’s not for roller blades. It’s for walking. It looks fine, and there are plenty of other place to walk the dogs.
What a bunch of whiners.
It is not a park. It is a community development project. They don’t want non-residents there. Keep your baby strollers and wheelchairs out. They are wasting money on construction and maintenance to justify their desire to build more condos.
Also, I don’t think dust from the gravel is good for your health, especially if it gets up in the air by wind or kids – just common sense. The gravel & dust will get all over the grass and that will not be pretty. But whoever designed the park obviously has no common sense. NOT whining just common sense….
It reminds me of some parks in Europe. I do recall seeing quite a few dogs in one particular park in Germany with gravel paths, but no strollers or joggers.
Now there are almost as many rocks on the ground as there are in the project-designers’ heads!
I don’t think it’s the kind of gravel that gets kicked up in the air and full of lose particles and dust. As an earlier commenter noted, it’s held down by a tar surface and is more like walking a textured concrete than anything else. I do like the fact that it will keep skateboarders and renegade bikers out. It’s not the kind of park designed for serious biking — at least not until the whole park is finished and maybe then there’ll be devoted bike paths.
Didn’t anyone notice that it is much cooler with the gravel then it is with the black top. There isn’t any shade in the park and the light color of the gravel does keep the temperature.
…cooler by the benches (I didn’t finish my sentence, sorry).
I’m surprised and disappointed. As someone who has been fairly involved with the park, I kinda feel this was an ill-conceived afterthought. I live in the neighborhood and now my little dog doesn’t know where to walk. Pier 1 was already open.. does anyone know the rationale behind the gravel?
Great line Obama. I have yet to experience this new “upgrade” to the park, but it seems to be another one of those BBP instances of form going head to head with function.T.K. certainly makes a compelling case regarding wheelchair and stroller accessibility while the arguments relating to diminishing the heat by employing lighter colors are also valid. If you’re familiar with the work currently being done on Squibb Park, the solution rests in the colored latex surfacing that has been applied over the asphalt. Perhaps not the same European experience as gravel, but certainly a reasonable middle-ground.
BTW, can anybody say whether they used tar or asphalt as a sub-surface?Hopefully not the former, as it’s likely to harden and shrink come winter, meaning much of the gravel may come loose.
“as seen in europe” seems to have been the watchwords for these planners. those domes are in kids’ parks in Germany! of course, in this day and age we can google the manufacturer who clearly states the domes are not to be installed in direct sun. and we’ve probably all been in european gardens with gravel. of course, those are on dirt paths so the rocks are set and don’t move all into the grass.
it just all seems so damn dumb.
(heat reduction could also be caused by the 20 degree drop in temp)
I was talking to folks who work in the park and learned the following:
1) This is not a new idea. It was always theplanned surface for pier 1, the weather was just too cold to apply the surface when they opened pier 1 in march. You’ll notice that the same surface has always been there on pier 6.
2) This is not the finished product. After the gravel has had the chance to “set” in the tar or whatever, the remaining loose gravel will be swept up. I suggest you take a look at pier 6 where the surface has already set and been swept several times. It is much easier to walk, bike, push a stroller, and I suspect a wheelchair too.
So to all you whiners, I say wait a couple of weeks until the process is finished until you judge. This reminds me ofll those people who were complaining about the lights when they were first installed before they were even aimed.
bkre above is correct — this is a work in progress.
Go walk from Pier 5 to Pier 6. You’ll see how the surface changes dramatically just as you pass the water park. It goes from tons of annoying, difficult, loose gravel to a much, much better surface where there’s nothing loose — just the bits of stone embedded in the tar.
I expect that this serves a number of purposes that once finished will result in a nicer park. Be patient.
or all those people who complained about those domes.
wonder how that lawsuit is coming along?
I just finished writing a comment, but unfortunately I am upstate and my pirated signal is quite weak and I lost everything. Suffice it to say, I very much appreciate that so many people referenced me directly. Thank you everyone!
Although I have a great deal of work to do on Monday, I will be heading down to Pier 1 to investigate. Rolling on any smooth surface is much easier and lends much more of a sense of freedom in movement. Even if all of the loose gravel is removed, the remaining service will create a constant jostling. Thank you inconsiderate park designers.
This was a complete surprise to me when my husband and I went down to the Pier for a run. Horrible idea–hard to run on and unattractive….
These designs are another example of elite snobbery – as observed by several writers some one obviously went to Europe – free trip I imagine – and tried to figure out how to justify the expense. Why can’t these fools come back with some of the better designs – always something cheap, ugly, and awful. This is just like that awful East River State Park – the geniuses cut down beautiful poplar trees which were growing naturally for years – replanted with some kind of out of place trees on the hottest day of the summer (last year) only to have the trees die and required to be replanted (who had a cousin in the nursery business?) Again, the motto of NYC should be City of Fools
Gravel is a noise pollutant…..
Off topic – how about this dirty, still water pond – a mosquito breeding ground (I guess I should say water). What is this doing there? I suppose it is intended to spread the West Nile virus.
I like the gravel. The only real downside is the disabled access issue. Its unfortunate that it makes enjoyment of the park harder for this population. As for runners, bikers, and rollerbladers, you all make my enjoyment of the park as a peaceful place to stroll and lounge less, so i say its good the gravel makes it harder for you. Run, bike, and rollerblade elsewhere.
Dog owners: your dogs are not meant to walk on concrete, the are meant for the changing surface of the earth. The challenge of walking on an unstable surface is good for them (us to actually).
Parents, excepting those children who are pre-walking age, this is a great opportunity to leave the stroller at home and make you children walk more. The spend too much time in the stroller as it is, and it makes them lazy, and misshapes their bodies.
@yourmom, re:strollers, if you had a baby, you would know that walking is not always an option. There is no way I would want my child out of her seat attempting to cross furman st with the cars coming off the BQE and around a blind corner. Not to mention all of the equipment we have to carry. Not to mention that wheeling her around pier 1 had been my new preferred way to get her to nap. That being said, I am hopeful that bkre is correct and the finished product will be much better. I am hopeful that in a few years time when the trees have grown and the park maintainers have finished the spit and polish, this will be an absolutely awesome park.
Actually, as of 2 days ago, the gravel on PIer 6′s walkways was still pretty loose — I was wondering if more had just been put on.
Did the people dictating/managing the park’s evolution ever consider signage to explain the change in the surfaces? Must everyone have to research the park, er, development project online to know what’s going on?
I think this is what is called top-down mismanagement.,
This is off-topic as well, but what gives with the brown grass in the center of the lawns too? They seem so diligent about watering the lawns and plants every day, I wonder how that happened?
These quibbles aside it’s still an excellent addition to the area and hopefully will only get better with time as the other sections are built.
I went there today and noticed the gravel. I think it looks fine, and much better for the heat than the asphalt.
And come to think of it, biking & skating aren’t permitted in the park, so it serves as a great deterent for people who think rules don’t apply to them.
A lot of you seem like whiners who would have something to complain about regardless of what they did to the park.
As of last night, I have been seeing signs on lampposts around our neighborhood saying ” Don’t like the gravel in Brooklyn Bridge Park? Call 311!” or something very like that. That’s an idea for the “whiners,” which I think would include me right now.
I believe we “whiners” are justified in our complaints, as this is a publicly-funded project we’re paying for though out hard-earned taxes!
Is there a website or other means by which we can make suggestions/critiques about our park before such controversial things are done there?
given the epidemic of childhood obesity, I always find it encouraging that I see very few kids in this area with “misshapen” bodies.
but I would invite YourMom to come over and take my kids out. I have two who certainly can and do walk. it would take about 35 minutes for them to walk down there and it’s hard with two to control at every light (especially the 18-month-old). plus, you’ll need to carry diapers and wipes and a changing pad. we spend about an hour there and then you’ll need to get to the store on the way home. we usually go to Sahadi’s so — with kids on foot — that will take about 90 minutes and on the way home you’ll have bags in your hands. that will slow you down considerably and will get dicey since you need to hold hands of both kids when you cross the streets, but I’m sure you can figure it out.
with the “pre-walkers” you mention, you’ll be carrying the child for much of that trip as well
so the daily trip to the playground and a quick stop at the store will take about 4 hours or so. come anytime.
Today I tripped again on the gravel and if i fall down and hurt myself and become even more physically disabled than I am right now I plan to sue NYC and get a big $ettlement for my pain and $uffering — maybe I could get the esteemed T. K. Small, Esq. to represent me?
BUT I would rather NOT fall, place scrape all of the gravel off and do something else.
Did anyone see the beautiful apt. at One Brooklyn Bridge Park on HGTV today?
Yes it is a spectacular apartment but that is NOT Brooklyn Heights it is so disconected from the Heights.
Maybe Brooklyn Bridge Park should become a neighborhood itself with its own comercial strip like Roosevelt Island? Get a Tram to take y’all to the subway, Montague Street, etc.
I cannot imagine living at One Brooklyn Bridge park escpecially a family with children.
ABC,
With kids in tow your fun trip to the new park sounds like HELL stay home arrange playdates in the local neighborhood at the park on Verandah Place and others.
Or call Promenade Car Service have them send you a Lincoln Town Car with A/C drop you at the park and make it a “round-robin” have them schedulaed to pick y’all up at the Ice Cream Hut when its time to go home for dinner, stop at Lassen & Hennings to pick up supper.
Or have the driver drop you and the kids at the Heights Casino for dinner that would be nice.
Its a good life here in the Heights the problem is just getting around, cracked sidewalks, pot-holes, sink-holes, *ssholes, but all in all its a great place to live!
B
Ben, I was replying to YourMom who said I should leave the stroller at home. WITH a stroller, all those walks take 10-15 minutes and I can take my kids to the playground, to the store, and by home by 10:30.
Did the food at the casino improve? Now THERE is some news!
Obama? and friends, to help get a real park instead of more of a condopark, contact your State Senator (Daniel Squadron), your State Assemblywoman (Joan Millman), and maybe Marty Markowitz — although he’s pretty much drunk the Kool-Aid on the condopark idea. You can also go to http://www.parkdefense.org, for The Brooklyn Bridge Park Defense Fund, but the site is being overhauled now so it isn’t as full of valuable info as it usually is.
ABOVE ALL, VOTE FOR CANDIDATES WHO WANT A REAL PARK IN THE SEPTEMBER ELECTIONS! (Sept 14, I think) Encourage your friends to do the same thing. Brooklytn voted out the man who slimed in the condopark PILOT legislation, Marty Connor, and we have to keep electing people who want a real park. So vote and use your vote wisely!
See Doug’s letter to the Brooklyn Paper:
http://bivforbrooklyn.com/blog/108-get-the-brooklyn-bridge-park-done-now
Doug Biviano is for a real Brooklyn Bridge Park and it being done before the next generation of kids in the neighborhood go to college. The luxury condo development model has complicated the project, bloated costs from $100 million to $350 million and resulted in delaying the park indefinitely with uncertain phases.
I was there today and noticed the gravel; instead of being a quiet inert surface, it was crunchy and load.
However, I was thinking with the amount of sun and lack of rain this summer, gravel will reflect much more solar energy and not warm the ground as much. This is better for the plants.
I also took a good look at the pond, noticing that it is not an inert body of water. There is water leaving the ponds and running off into the salt water marsh area, which leads me to assume that fresh water is coming into the pond from somewhere. I would also not be surprised if there are small fish here, which eat mosquito larvae. There are certainly dragonflies there now; they’re voracious insectivores.
loud, not load…
abc,
Breeding was your choice. I have zero interest in taking your kids out. If its such a hassle to get them around from place to place, well you should have thought about that before having them. Or move some where else, or take a cab there, as someone else suggested. Or just push the stroller over the gravel and suffer a bit of inconvenience. Seems like you want someone else to take responsibility for your choices. Push the stroller, or make a day of it; honestly I doubt you would be happy at all.
monty,
really? people didn’t get around with their kids for thousands of years by walking, doing their best to avoid perils? Also, they didn’t need all that crap you carry. Perhaps you and your kids need less than you think.
@yourmom, call me when you live in a tree and don’t have a computer to post smarmy comments on the internet at 2am before telling me I don’t need a stroller.
Wow! Just spent about ten minutes reading all the posts. I believe the ponds are part of the irrigation system. Note the ecosystem that is being created from nothing — it is a well-thought-out piece of landscape architecture. The gravel is getting compacted; it hey are going to sweep off the loose bits, it will be fine [I do wonder why it wasn't roller compacted upon application]. I am interested to see when the paths to the spiral pool will be open to everyone, not just kayakers. Oh! And Doug B., those 3 story berms are going to be welcome sound barriers for the park against BQE noise. I believe ballfields are scheduled for one of the remaining piers.
monty, the difference between me and you is that I don’t get on here and complain about how hard life is. its was your choice to have children, therefor, you choose a life that is full of inconveniences as well as blessings. you have to take both. the disabled folk, they have every right to be upset and complain, they didn’t choose to be that way. you did choose.
yourmom,
You sound angry & very anti-child. You may want to rethink things, I hope.
i am not angry, or anti child. i am simply anti entitled parent. “it you only had a child, you would know…”, is both condescending and entitled.
yourmom, you came out swinging. you don’t like bike or dogs and strollers make kids lazy. okaaaaaaaaay.
kids grow up here without cars. we walk everywhere. when we have more than a few blocks to go, we use a stroller. it’s no issue at all in the city — until people start putting gravel on brand new paved paths.
the playground inside that park was designed for toddlers. 9 out of 10 kids get there in a stroller. it was just poor planning.
but, honestly, I could give a crap about you so moving on.
how do they plan to plow this when it snows I wonder?
I went to Pier 1 yesterday, and was appalled at the graveled paths. I am disabled and use a rolling walker and found it a great struggle to walk very far. A very bad plan, indeed. I will not be able to use that park again, until it’s changed
As for for entitlements, the law says that all PUBLIC places must accommodate disabled persons. A park is for everyone to enjoy and use, and paths that can’t be used by wheeled vehicles don’t belong there; that would certainly include children ‘s carriages.
So, “yourmom”, I’m sure your mother pushed you in a carriage and appreciated a good road. You’re very short-sighted.
This discussion is more heated than the ground zero mosque issue! It’s just gravel, folks.
Your Mom, there are PLENTY of over-entitled parents in our neighborhood, not to mention the many merely entitled parents, I dare say that they can be found all across the USA, and possibly even Europe — perhaps they are complaining there about gravel walkways too!
It is NOT “entitled,” however, to want to access a park that costs gazillions of our tax dollars without risk to life and liimb — as is the case at both Pier 1 and especially Pier 6. Theoretically at least , experts designed this park and should have ironed out the
park access issues for ALL visitors. The Americans with Disabilities Act is the law, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, someone will say,but the DOT is responsible for the entry points. Why didn’t BBP management call DOT and work this out in advance? As far as the gravel walkways, why not take care of it ahead of time? How about a test drive for strollers, and different wheelchairs? Wheeled walkers? Wow, senior citizens who want to get out of the house and into the sun. How dare they?
Taking care of your own basic safety, and that of your family, in order to use a PUBLIC park’s amenities is common sense.
Just sayin’, but isn’t it premature to be getting our collective undies in a bundle over the gravel, considering the gravel paving job isn’t even completed yet? What many have been worried about is an intermediate step of placing a lot of loose gravel on top of tar and waiting a few days for it to set.
I was in the park earlier this afternoon and saw several construction crews scooping up the loose gravel that was left in place for a few days to set.
Now that the gravel is set, it much more compact, less dusty, and likely easier to navigate for feet and wheels. The excess gravel is being swept up and scooped up. The result is a pretty firm surface.
I was over at Pier 6 this evening and experienced what the finished product is like, and it’s nothing like what we’ve seen while the surfacing was a work in progress on Pier 1 over the past few days.
I’ll be curious to hear the opinions once the path surface installation is finally completed on Pier 1.
Since I first read about this situation while I was away for the weekend, I was annoyed but wanted to reserve comment until I actually saw and rolled on the gravel. This afternoon I took a look and simply put it was dreadful! What really bugs me (and many others) is the complete lack of accountability and “middle finger” that this installation suggests.
The law and regulations covering this issue are really quite clear. It took me about 2-3 minutes to find the exact section of the regulations and is found at A.D.A.A.G. Section 4.5
“4.5 Ground and Floor Surfaces.
4.5.1* General. Ground and floor surfaces along accessible routes and in accessible rooms and spaces including floors, walks, ramps, stairs, and curb ramps, shall be stable, firm, slip-resistant, and shall comply with 4.5. (See Appendix Note)
The first paragraph of the appendix goes on to state in relevant part:
A4.5.1 General. People who have difficulty walking or maintaining balance or who use crutches, canes, or walkers, and those with restricted gaits are particularly sensitive to slipping and tripping hazards. For such people, a stable and regular surface is necessary for safe walking, particularly on stairs. Wheelchairs can be propelled most easily on surfaces that are hard, stable, and regular. Soft loose surfaces such as shag carpet, loose sand or gravel, wet clay, and irregular surfaces such as cobblestones can significantly impede wheelchair movement.”
But apart from my personal discomfort, when I was down at Pier 1 today, there were at least eight people working to remove the excess gravel, using giant pieces of equipment brought in from Hicksville Long Island. Is it any wonder why this park is so damn expensive!?! Specifically, there was a bulldozer/backhoe, a bobcat like machine, and a small dump truck. The operation of the dump truck was particularly pointless and ridiculous. As four workers swept and shoveled gravel into the front bin of the bobcat, the truck gradually inched forward. It would seem that the expense of a driver for the dump truck was completely unnecessary. Again, where is the accountability?
(Full disclosure, I’m on the board of the Brooklyn Bridge Park Conservancy. Not the organization that builds and operates the park, but that arranges a large portion of the programming in the park such as the education programs, free kayaking, Thursday night movies, etc.)
Matthew Parker, thank you for being a voice of reason.
As I pointed out about 30 comments ago, this gravel is a work in progress. The finished result can be experienced on southern extreme of the waterfront in front of the Pier 6 playground — more or less where one boards the Governor’s Island Ferry. Walk there and you’ll find no dust and no loose gravel — just a stable, much-cooler-than-black-asphalt surface.
While the loose gravel is clearly an inconvenience for some, the alternative would likely have been to draw out the process, noise and mess by staging the paving in multiple portions… close entire pathways while the gravel sets into the sun-heated tar. Since they count on the hot sun the soften the tar and want to inconvenience as few people as possible, I think doing it all in one fell swoop during the dog days of Summer makes a lot of sense. (Not to mention it’s likely less expensive to do it all once than in multiple small portions.)
Let’s all give the park builders some time to get their job done — after all, a world-class park can’t be built in a day.
-Peter
Okay then.
I prefer the smooth black asphalt over the gravel on Pier 6 where one boards the ferry. It’s easier to walk on, ride on, and push a stroller on and will be easier to clear in the winter. The gravel isn’t as bad at Pier 6 but it’s still hard to – say – turn a stroller around on.
I guess I don’t get the need for it. Why go to the expense? To make it cooler? Considering that the park has almost no shade — the playgrounds are completely without shade — I can’t really see they cared about the coolness.
And there is certainly loose gravel on Pier 6. Stand in line for the Gov Island Ferry and watch the kids toss the loose rocks into the river. It’s not as bad as Pier 1 but you can’t say there is no loose gravel on Pier 6.
Mr. Parker, you may be right about how the gravel will settle. But why didn’t the BBP management communicate, even with some simple signage, before the new loose gravel went down? Why did so many angry parents of burned toddlers have to protest before the silver domes were removed? Why did the Brooklyn Bridge Park Defense Fund have to write to all the electeds and the DOT before BBP management addressed the dangerous access points at Piers 1 & 6?
It’s because, despite the new ingredient of City Parks involvement, which should require some sort of public process for many of the changes in the park, the BBP management doesn’t have to listen to anyone’s protests. They can smile nicely and then do whatever they want to do. They make a faux pas — in this case, literally — and there’s no need for a remedy. The people running this project keep getting away with this, and I and more than a few others find it infuriating.
Any idea if we got a refund on the $84,000 spent on the teutonic tot toasters? We’ll probably never get an answer on that one, either.
so that i am clear, i think its terrible that the gravel makes it harder for disabled people to use the park. my brother is disabled so i understand the difficulty. I think some other people just want to whine about themselves, and im tired of hearing it.
When I read TK Small’s posts about the “park” designers and managers that simply refuse to acknowledge accessibility as protected by federal law for a significantly large portion of the New York’s population, it infuriates me.
We have witnessed this same type of willful negligence in refusing to acknowledge the dangers at Pier 1′s domes that resulted in serious but preventable injuries and burns to children. I have written Regina Myer about the obvious dangers at Pier 6 playground that are easy to mitigate such as rounding very sharp wood corners in the water park and shielding the base of the pump screw, my own family having witnessed an ambulance taking a child away the second day the playground was open. A video blog was made by BHB based on my letter. In my follow up letters, I addressed accessibility on movie nights. To date, I received a non-answer to my concerns. I would be happy to make the letter available which I received only days ago, months after my initial letter.
Make no mistake about it. If the executive officers and board of directors at BBPOE/BBPDC ignore issues as important as accessibility and child safety, the writing on the wall should be pretty clear. These folks are simply not accountable, nor are they interested in your concerns.
The MTA should ring a bell. That’s why, at a hearing this spring, I called the BBP the MPA — the Mayor’s Project Authority. The MPA will play out just like the MTA, unaccountable to the people yet a convenient punching bag for the politicians who actually control the authorities behind the scenes with their appointments. Legally, the BBP MPA is not all that different from the MTA. BBP is not a park, it’s a corporation controlled by a board that does not and will not answer to the public.
Senator Daniel Squadron and Assemblymember Joan Millman — thanks to Sen. Squadron — have veto power over the luxury skyscrapers to go up at Pier 6. If you want some say in the park, the luxury skyscrapers must be vetoed (think political contributions by developers and condo owners to politicians and appointments to the board like former Sen. Marty Connor). We must get this future center of gravity of park control out of the way now while we can. The new towers will be a corrupting force for sure. They have certainly been a complicating and delaying force to date, driving up costs to obscene levels, resulting in a phased and uncertain completion date.
Given the abdication of public trust of the BBPDC/BBPOE witnessed thus far, I call upon Sen. Squadron and Assemblywoman Joan Millman to veto the luxury housing immediately and restore some control back to us.
What is meant by Mr. Bivano when he says “luxury skyscrapers”? I thought that any building would remain below the level of 4 stories, in order to keep the view of the Brooklyn Bridge from the Promenade? Is there a bonafide plan for skyscrapers? SKYSCRAPERS? Buildings 60 stories high??!! Anyone know specifics on this? No hyperbole, please. Thanks.
A 16-story and a 30-story tower are planned for the fenced-off areas near Pier 6
Another tall building is planned for Dumbo, although I don’t recall the exact location at the moment. Maybe John Street? If it’s John St, the Dumbo tower is being built on land owned by Con Ed that donated to Dumbo to try and make amends for ConEd’s years of polluting in Dumbo and Vinegar Hill — there is/was a Con Ed plant in Vinegar Hill by the East River. Sadly, the Dumbo-ites gave the land to the park and got a luxury condo. I think this is all basically correct.
I may be off by one or two stories (too low, that is) for the Pier 6- adjacent towers.
The park planners can get away with this because Brooklyn Heights’ Historic District does not extend beyond Furman Street, and because all the tall building are clustered outside the North and South ends of the Promenade.
I will restrain myself from any editorial comments for the moment.
I think bklyn20 has it about right. There are to be, at some point, two buildings with 780 condos in them on Pier 1. And a 225-room hotel.
Would like to point out that these would all be zoned for PS8 as are the 447 condos at One Brooklyn Bridge Park, all of the new condos in Dumbo, and the hundreds of condos that may come out of any conversion of even half of the Witnesses buildings.
So we’re all glad the city added 7 new classrooms to the school in this current expansion. That should certainly be enough. Right?
Maybe I’m slow…
- 2 towers over near the Pier 6 playground, south of One Brooklyn Bridge Park building?
- 2 buildings and a hotel near Pier 1 (presumedly on the land where the buildings were torn down)?
- another tall one in DUMBO over by the Walentas’ buildings?
Is there any limit as to the heights of the buildings near Pier 1?
All u cry babies should remember what was there.Mabey they shouldn’t have made a park for you jerks, and kept it abandoned so the riff raff could have hade their own park.Grow up and appricated what u have. I’m a construction worker at the park, and i see people enjoying it every day.
But Bob, this is not a pony your rich daddy gave you for your birthday. This is something we bought and paid for. If someone came in and renovated your house AND took your money — a lot of money — and wouldn’t listen to you when you wanted to have some say, you’d be pissed too.
I like this park. I don’t like the process. And I find it infuriating that small things that people have spoken out about (the burning domes, the lack of simple shade, the gravel “improvement”) are met with silence.
They’re renovating the Walt Whitman Park at a cost of $4.5 million of taxpayer dollars.
http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?id=34908
I think that’s too much. How about $2 million on that park and a $2.5 million endowment for PS8? The school could make the final push to be top notch, property values would rise, city makes more money on every sale of every apartment. And we’d have a lovely park, I’m sure.
Can you imagine if we could talk about things like this?