The Brooklyn Eagle reports today that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has decided to move its headquarters out of Brooklyn Heights. The current state of the real estate market will slow the group’s departure, the article says.
The group, while eventually complimented for saving some historic buildings like the Bossert and Standish Arms Hotels in Brooklyn Heights, was characterized by preservationists as part of the “gathering storm” of destruction in the 1950s.
Heights Hero Otis Pearsall told New York Magazine in 1987, “As the Witnesses buy up more and more there is a sense that a critical mass might be reached. When this happens there will be so many Witnesses that Brooklyn Heights will be a less attractive place for regular families to live.”
Now that the end of the Watchtower’s residence in Brooklyn Heights seems to be nearing, do you think this will open the door for more “regular families”? How do you think it will impact the quality of life here?
Brooklyn Eagle: “We have submitted a proposal to the Town of Warwick to build a complex there that we’re calling the World Headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses,” Richard Devine told the Eagle Tuesday. “We have started the land use process there.”
Devine, who is in charge of real property for the religious organization, was confirming what was contained in a document forwarded anonymously to the Eagle last week.
That document included several pages from a public scoping session held Nov. 18 by the Town of Warwick Planning Board.
Does this mean they’re moving the printing plants as well? I see condos in someone’s future. Let’s start talking about school options now. Man, what a gym that’s going to be!!!
Hope this doesn’t mean the extinction of the time and temp sign, visible from my apt and by now an indispensable look-see.
Surely Jehovah doesn’t want me–or others–to be flummoxed by what-to-wear matters or to loose track of whether it’s day or night….
If only “regular families” could afford to move here now.
No one would say that the rehab work the Watchtower did over the last three decades is anything but first rate with careful attention to historic restoration always. You might say they set the standard. I’ve seen their work and that of commercial developers, and there is no comparison; just look at the rehab they did on 183 Columbia Heights nineteen years ago, it still looks like it was done recently. Before they bought the Standish, it was shabby and not maintained.
The Watchtower folks spent their money here; they ate next to us at the local restaurants. They silently contributed to safety as well as did more than their share in keeping the neighborhood clean.
The question, “How do you think it will impact the quality of life here?” cannot be answered by those who did not witness the Witnesses’ massive BH rehabilitation. BH is the “tony” neighborhood and when they leave, it will not change too much. One can only hope that those who buy in will have deep enough wallets to maintain what the Watchtower Bible and Tract admirably has all these years.
By the way: the Watchtower families probably were regular families, if a regular family means wife, husband, and sometimes children. I did not notice irregularities. What is a regular family anyhow?
I agree with Teddy — I’d say the incredible prices of housing here is a bigger prevention of “regular” families moving in.
Regular families–those whose income from all members is less than 100 thou–can’t afford to move into Brooklyn Heights.
As a regular family of one (plus two non-wage-earning felines), I was fortunate indeed to find adequate space here three years ago in an apartment that’s rent stabilized. Purely luck of the draw. My situation, in every respect, was an is extraordinary.
(That’s 100 thou a year…but you knew that, right?)
@ William Spier,
I agree, the rehabilitation work the Watchtower did on their buildings is impeccable…. hey it’s easy when you don’t have to pay a dime in taxes and your labor force is virtually free. No commercial developer nor most private owners could ever afford to do that level of work… Who could possibly compete?
“The Watchtower folks spent their money here” Yes, but not much. They are for the most part a closed organization and avoid interaction with us “worldly people” except of course if it’s to try to bamboozle someone into buying their ridiculous beliefs…
“They silently contributed to safety as well as did more than their share in keeping the neighborhood clean” What, How did they help keep the neighborhood safe? While they may not contribute to crime (as far as we know) it does not mean they help fight crime…. As far as cleaning; yes they do keep their properties clean but I am not aware of any program they have for cleaning anyone else’s or public or property…..
“What is a regular family anyhow?” A family that does not belong to a cult and only here for their yearly “reprograming”…
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Prices in Brooklyn Heights are high because the residential supply is vastly outstripped by the demand.
Prices could drop (not crash, but maybe 10-15%) if the supply of housing suddenly increased by several hundred units in a short time. On the other hand, an influx of families with children will add more strain to PS8.
Wonder if the city or state would step in to force “affordable housing” on some percentage of the units.
Interesting coincidence to see this occur as the Brooklyn Bridge Park rolls out.
Another data point will be the reconstruction of the BQE, which will negatively impact the Heights for up to ten years if/when it starts in 2012-2014.
This whole process will take years to play out.
The Eagle article primarily refers to the Heights residential space and the Squibb buildings on Columbia. Any sense of whether the other cluster of Watchtower buildings in DUMBO would also be emptied?
The departure of the Watchtower group can have quite an affect on the Heights landscape, and it raises oodles of questions. For starters, will on-street parking in the North Heights be more available; what will happen with the Towers Hotel? Also, the Eagle article mentions Watchtower ownership of 105 Willow. Does anyone know if that’s accurate?
@epc The BQE cantilever reconstruction is not scheduled to begin until 2018-2020. It is stlll in the draft scoping stage. There will still be years of alternatives analysis, DEIS and EIS before we get to the start of construction, and that is if there are no unexpected delays. Keep in mind that the Kosciuszko Bridge project was delayed at least 2 years since the planning started.
The biggest impact of a potential sale of 25 and 30 Columbia Hts is that the conversion to condos could follow the history of 360 Furman, with PILOT taxes used to finance Brooklyn Bridge Park. And one of those buildings could easily house a school, which would obviate the need for a school at Dock Street Dumbo, which of course was, and still is a bad idea.
epc,
I hadn’t even considered the BQE promenade project, but it could be a mess for those who live here.
I bought into the Heights in 2004, not at the absolute peak of the market but high enough so that I will have to be strategic about selling and I will have to carefully time my sale around a major roadway construction project.
As for the quality of life changing because of the JW’s departure, I can’t imagine it changing much because this is the most expensive area in Brooklyn, so the high prices will mean that you will see more of the same: people 35+, high income whites, with a sprinkling of Asians, and African American. Jews will be well represented. Generally when people are working very hard there isn’t much room in their lives for religious extremism so there will be a healthy lay mix of religions.
There may be fewer civil servants or lower-income earners who rely on subsidized housing: rent stabilization or rent control. So with more condos and coops it is possible that Brooklyn Heights may become even more upper-middle class.
But I really don’t see the neighborhood changing radically.
Bartmann
This is awful news. Without the JW’s, how will we know when Armageddon is approaching? Every morning on my way to the subway I see them going about their business and I am comforted. They look no different than any other day, so the world is not about to end. Who will provide that morning comfort now?
The time and temp sign was there before the JW’s moved in (when I was in school, it said SQUIBB for the Drug Company), and I expect it will remain when they leave.
I believe that the Witnesses have already moved the bulk of their printing upstate already. They bought a large heavy new press that couldn’t be supported in their Brookyln buildings. Plus upstate New York may be a better place to be when the world ends.
FYI – “Regular” people were priced out of many NYC neighborhoods, not just the Heights, during the bubble.
@Arch Stanton,
It all has seen as process, one that spans decades. I am not sure one knew if the person next to him/her at a Montague business establishment was from the Watchtower, the Courts, or BOE. Granted, they fed themselves and full timers received a monthly stipend of about a hundred bucks. I knew quite a few of the full timers and they also received support from home. I know some folks here who wear Manolo Blatniks, and they ain’t sold on Montague Street. Then there are the ubiquitous Fresh direct trucks….
Over the years, the shear number of Witnesses on the streets at all hours did add to the safety of the neighborhood; I will not say more than that.
These folks kept their extensive holding clean. they did not have to do others sanitation.
As for cults: Brooklyn has some serious religio-centric communities; the Witnesses just happen to be here, and herelonger than you and I. I think all cults are self parasitic on their members, and a pain in the ass to the rest of us. But, they do have families that (on the surface) appear a bit more regular than some other associations in the City.
From your mouth to Jehovah’s ears, CFB….
All I can say is that the 1987 quote makes me cringe with how xenophobic it sounds, and I am glad things haven’t devolved too much in the comments here in the same way …
William, your Blahnik reference made me chuckle. Back in the 60′s, spotting a JW fresh off the plains was pretty easy. High-water blue pants, pressed white shirt, bad haircut. We used to joke that they bought their clothes wholesale off-the-rack from John’s Bargain Stores. They were so homogenous that we referred to them as “pod people”. That is, until the 90′s, when individual choice became the norm. We put it down to the “Michael Jackson” effect.
Also have to make note of the stipend that you mention, which many of them supplement by freelancing in the area. My mother swore by her “plant manager” who took care of the little (and some big) things in her house. Whatever problem came up, he could make a call and get just the right expert in the organization to fix it. When I moved back to the house after she passed away, I used him as well…until I realized that their work was sub-par.
I agree that the JW ethos of cleanliness being next to Godliness has been a boon to the neighborhood. But they have always served themselves first. Hopefully, the people who replace them will be as diligent in maintaing their properties, as well as relationships with their neighbors.
BTW, that should be sheer in your post, not shear. Totally different connotation.
Just google “Jehovah’s Witnesses Child Molestation” or click the link, http://tinyurl.com/y9j6g5l
So much for “regular” unless your baseline for regular child molestation within organized religion is the Roman Catholic Church.
With all the real estate opening up, it will be great for property tax collection. Now if we could only get rid of brooklyn Law school, maybe our taxes could go down even more!
Nancy,
It’s interesting you mention Brooklyn Law School because just the other day I was walking past one of their student housing buildings and there was trash all over. My general gripe with BLS is that their buildings are not maintained and look more like frat houses. On almost every street they occupy, BLS buildings are the eyesores of the block.
Bartmann
“No one would say that the rehab work the Watchtower did over the last three decades is anything but first rate with careful attention to historic restoration always.”
True enough for the properties they kept, but doesn’t apply to the fine old homes on Columbia Heights and Willow Street they tore down in the 1960s, squeaking by before landmarking came in (to which they were adamantly opposed).
I know many residents feel that the Witnesses don’t contribute to the local economy because they are so tight within their own community, but I think you don’t realize how much their leaving will impact the area.
Every time I have visited, we take on the town. And I mean locally we go to several restaurants within walking distance of the properties.
70,000 people visit Brooklyn Heights annually to visit the facilities or their friends that live there.
That’s tourism.
That’s money that keeps the local restaurants going.
But there are a lot of people on these boards that hate them in their neighborhood. I guess they would rather have neighbors that play loud music, party all the time or don’t take care of their properties.
A whole new economy will be coming to Warwick and I am looking forward to visiting the new facilities there.
Someone call the Wal-Mart of Warwick and tell them to stock up on the kool-aid.
Just Me,
To say that the people who replace the Jo-hos will only be “neighbors that play loud music, party all the time or don’t take care of their properties” is idiotic…. Also the the reality based, nouveau-heights residents will have plenty of money to spend at local restaurants…
No One of Consequence,
LOL
Just Me,
Also, I’m sure you and your fellow Hovas will find Warwick more like home, with the Applebee’s and the Olive Garden…. Just like home , aye?
Just Me, ignore these JW-haters.
Question for you though… How will a worldly type like me know when Armageddon is coming without the JW headquarters in the neighborhood? Do you guys have an email or text-alert system that I could subscribe to?
BH-Guy & Just Me,
Perhaps the control of the Clock could be retained when the old Squibb building is sold; it could then be converted to a “countdown clock”
Just Me, better get on that clock project, right away… they might make you an Elder for it… (I won’t tell)
didn’t the crown jewel bossert just fail to sell? i assume all these properties will be expensive to convert so i just don’t see some apocalyptic (pun intended) change coming.
Nabeguy: you are right about the spelling;it was just sloppiness on my end.
As Dennis Holt says in the BHP, it will take years for the Watchtower to divest the real estate. Each sale will bring a new building onto the tax rolls.
Over time, there will be many more children–especially with the Park draw. The city would be smart to latch on to one of their properties that suits a school. The addition to PS 8 will be stuffed with kids in about five years. Why did the City not talk to the Watchtower folks a year or two ago. It was another instance of the School Construction Authority’s limited intelligence
Although the Witnesses are known for doing good restoration jobs on their properties, they have also destroyed the ballroom at the Bossert, stripping it of decoration and installing a dropped ceiling, and have also destroyed the ballrooms at the Towers Hotel; one is the Don Pedro Room, a restaurant, the other the large Ballroom itself.
I will, however, miss their clearing the snow between their various properties in the North Heights. But not their always moving shuttle buses.
Mr. Stanton: Per your “Olive Garden and Applebee’s” comment on the supposed white-bread, small-town American demography of JW’s…Roughly 85% of JW’s are outside the U.S. Inside the U.S. the JW’s are arguably the most ethnically and racially diverse major religious group (they’re majority-minority)–see the Pew U.S. Religious Landscape.
The odds are that local restaurants will see a substantial drop in business when the Watchtower formally designates another location as their WORLD headquarters and the tourist draw drops. That’s a simple fact. The relative wealth of a dramatically reduced residential population won’t change that.
Facati’s is definitely going to be impacted, as will the sale of Almaden at Michael’s Town Liquor.Whatever happens, it’s not going to be happen overnight, especially given the market-place. Just as it took decades for the JW organization to amass their holdings, it will probably take quite some time to sell them, although given their astuteness at buying many properties when they did in the 70′s, they’re sure to reap some nice profits.
i just did some volunteer temp work in brooklyn at 25 Columbia Heights and i’ll tell ya, everyone i know there eats at the restaurants on henry, atlantic, montague, etc. regularly. i went out and had a beer at a local pub a few nights and it was largely my brothers that were patronizing the establishment.
you can examine the crime statistics of the Heights online… it’s the lowest in the city…
i’ll miss going down to brooklyn to visit JW headquarters, eat out and go shopping… we’ll see how the neighborhood changes.
Some people need to be careful about who we get into the heights to replace the witnesses. Sure, you mighten like them but at least they dont steal, swear mug or kill people. Who knows who our neighbours might be in the future. I am a little concerned also about who is going to look after the buildings the same way the witnesses do.
I think they’re great neighbors. Never bothered me. Quite friendly, actually.
to “no one of consequence”
it’s obvious you’re impressed by the witnesses or you would not be writing on this site…yes, you’re a hater…you hate their progress…the DUMBO district exists ONLY because of the JW presence…it’s a classy place ONLY because of the JWs…as far as child molesters go…yes, there are molesters all over the world in all walks of life…i just read about a
school teacher in california convicted of child molesting…THAT DOESN’T MEAN ALL SCHOOL TEACHERS ARE CHILD MOLESTERS…you’re NOT fair but that’s okay…I will pray for you…it’s a fearful thing to be in the hands of the living God…
shake your fist into the air all you want…Jehovah gives you that freedom…but He will not tolerate haters forever…AMEN!
newyorker, nooc is not saying that every JW is a child molester. Given that Jehovah has the final say, you might want think carefully about how you shake your own fist in continuing down the road of denial.
dear nabeguy,
i know nooc was not saying EVERY JW is a child molester…but his INTENT was to incinuate that JWs are perverts in one way or another…he was not innocently posting a piece of interesting trivia…there was MALICE behind it and you know it in your heart of hearts…i don’t know what you mean about the road of denial but i do know most of mankind is in GREAT DENIAL that there is indeed a God of this universe…also, I give myself the right to feel righteous indignation from time to time….Amen, so be it…have a beautiful day…
dear nabeguy,
before you correct my typo…insinuate…okay?…blah, blah, blah…i hope you’re having a great day…peace out…
dear nabeguy,
one more thing…your comment about JWs “always serving themselves first” – we spent way over one billion hours worldwide last year speaking to people “one on one” – we cover travel expenses and expenses for the literature we place including hundreds of millions of bibles in hundreds of languages…every Witness is “out of pocket”…it’s a labor of love…we’re growing at the rate of 800 Witnesses for every day of every year…Jehovah said he would rock the nations and shake out all His desirables during the “last days”…but it’s not about the numbers, like I said, it’s a labor of love…
did I say hundreds of languages? can you name one hundred languages? i can’t…take care, nabeguy…lots of precious souls out there including you…thanks for the nice words you did share…peace out…
Cult members are robots. Stfu “new yorker”.
According to Durkheim a cult is the “early formation of religious practices.” I think the Jehova’s Witnesses are a full fledged religion.
Man Waco Texas and Jim Jones killed the word cult in the english language.
Good news: all the JH properties are being bought up by the Scientologists! We can expect Kirsty Allie, John Travolta and Tom Cruise to move to the neighborhood soon.
(Oh, sorry, this shoulda been posted April 1st)
Did I say all Witnesses were child molesters?
What that article is saying is that the JW provide a sort of sanctuary for child molesters in the way they require two witnesses to an act before they’ll even consider an allegation to have merit.
Of course they wouldn’t want any actual cases to be discovered. After all, aren’t they supposed to be able to cure child molesting? Just like the Scientologists can cure gayness?
I like how in this new blog-world, any dissenting opinion, or in this case linking to an article makes one a “hater.”
Don’t worry, I like to pick on all of the organized religions because they’re all the same as instruments of control.
Before you jump on nabeguy’s spelling, perhaps you would like some of your ellipses back… … …
oh, and I have a feeling that Mr. Walentas and family would take exception to your comment about the rise of DUMBO.
Funny how some guys in this blog turned the ‘JW-out-of-town’ impact into a personal confrontation. I’ll just go by the facts: They were good neighbors and provided a sense of ‘moral safeness’ and decency overall. Not sure what the outcome will be years from now but I really predict (without being a prophet) that it’s not going to be that nice, regardless of some movie stars moving in.
dear no one of consequence,
first of all, i never corrected nabeguy’s spelling…and secondly, why are you so hateful of Jehovah? the One who gave you life and breath and free will? What was His crime?
The crimes all belong to mankind…it’s such a shame that Jehovah offers everlasting life under peaceful conditions and people like you shove it back into His chest…such a pity…I hope that one day you’ll take all that negativity out of your mind and heart and soul…you’re clueless as to mankind’s potential…it’s way beyond anything you’ve ever meditated on…under true paradisaic conditions, your beloved “dumbo” district will be meaningless and insignificant inlcuding any “awe inspiring” contributions your beloved “walentas”
made…how sad you choose to admire their contributions and despise the Witnesses who are simply trying to be decent human beings…maybe you would have been much happier if your sacred dumbo district was infested with gang bangers, crack heads, pot heads, drug dealers, prostitutes and drunks vomiting on the street…and hopefully you’ll think more of yourself one day than just “no one of consequence”…your negativity is poisoning you…it’s rottenness to the bones…
i wish you peace, love, clarity, growth and healing…sincerely, new yorker, a truth seeker and servant of Jehovah, the God of this universe…NO!…Life is NOT just one great, big happy “accident”….peace out…and I LUV my dot dot dots….
P.S. – Like I said before, I give myself the right to feel righteous indignation from time to tiime…and I give myself
the right to express it to the best of my imperfect abilities…
I am, a new yorker and a child of the universe…to quote Rodney Allen King, “Can’t we all just get along?” !!! dot dot dot…
Dear Plain and Simple, Thank you for sharing your thoughts…
Thank you, Sticky, for your well-balanced input on the meaning of the word cult. People can use that word
with all the negativity they want to impose on it…Jehovah’s people are still happy, centered, focussed and blessed
by their God. Jesus was persecuted so much worse. We’re in good company.
To The Where,
You said cult members are robots…What cult might you belong to? Are you a robot of Satan’s world? The world alientated from God? Do you jump on every band wagon the world tells their robots to jump on? Did you buy “this” Hallmark card and “that” Hallmark card? Yesterday’s Hallmark card? Did you wear the right colors? Did you “buy” the beer yesterday? Robots were “supposed” to buy the beer, you know. Did you tell anyone and eveyrone that you’re part Irish? Are you ready to keep Hallmark in business with their next batch of cards and their next and their next? What does the Easter bunny have to do with Christ?
Who invented liquid soap, btw? Why are all the political pundits sitting at round tables speaking in hysteria in a frenzy and getting nowhere? Did the Bible really say that in the last days people “would not be open to ANY agreement”? Does the world have their robots believe that they’re all REALLY different and unique? Does the world tell you you’re not a follower?
You told me to shut up but I will exercise my freedom of speech. The Witnesses went all the way to the Supreme Court to fight for the freedom to speak when everyone was allowed to except us. We also went all the way to the Supreme Court when we were being FORCED to say things
to an “emblem” that we didn’t want to speak to. It was ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL: COMPULSORY SPEECH. I know you appreciate that through our efforts and with God’s help…no one can force you to speak and no one can select you to keep quiet….peace out, my fellow human being…Christ died for you…He paid the price in order for you to have a future…
Umm…. IP ban?
I second Charlie’s motion
Wait, there are robots that can buy beer. Where can I acquire said robot?
@newyorker, have a read: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/b8zac/iama_former_jehovahs_witnessturnedatheist_ama/
“They were good neighbors and provided a sense of ‘moral safeness’ and decency overall. Not sure what the outcome will be years from now but I really predict (without being a prophet) that it’s not going to be that nice, regardless of some movie stars moving in.”
Oh yes, I definitely agree, it’s going to be longshoremen, hookers and artists all over again.
@ monty…i stay away from junk food…regarding the word “atheist” on your link…one cubic inch of a star weighs 16 billion tons!…with a universe so MASSIVE…the AUDACITY of people to declare with such certainty that they know for a fact, everything that is and isn’t out in the universe…some people are really delusional…at least agnostics are humble enough to admit that maybe there is and maybe there isn’t…i’m done with this forum…no more casting of pearls…peace out…
newyorker
…put
…the
….ladle
…down
…now.
One cubic inch of the sun weighs 16 billion tons? The average human brain weighs 3.1 pounds. Yours seems to weigh slightly more, given all the Lysol that the JW’s have tried to wash it with. What’s the latest “end of days” prediction? Personally, I stopped worrying about it when the locusts didn’t come back in 1976. Peace out to you, but getting out would be a better idea IMHO.
Robots that drink beer: the most recent example is from “Futurama”, but Lewis Padgett wrote a series of wonderful stories in the 1940s about Joe, a beer swilling robot invented as the ultimate beer can opener by an inventor named Gallagher who did his best work only when he was drunk. And, of course, when he sobered up he never remembered exactly *how*. Collected in the book ROBOTS HAVE NO TAILS (Gnome Press, 1952).
Oh, and I don’t believe in the existence of NYer’s god. Sorry, she doesn’t exist.
You should know that all your banter is not helping your case in any way.
As for being a Walentas lover, I think not.
No more replies from me. It seems to just be encouraging you and FFS I hate being preached at.
Just want to comment on someone’s comment about googling “Jehovah’s Witnesses Child Molestation”. Anyone who looks for the negative in any large organization, can find it by googling it. But to judge or characterize an entire organization based on the comparatively little negative they found is tantamount to prejudice in my opinion. I google and found the following: Jehovah’s Witnesses child molestation 23,600 sites(plus a wiki article about how unrepenting molesters are excommunicated no matter how high up they are in the organization.) Google Baptist child molesters 122,000 sites. Catholic child molesters 424,000 sites. Do you judge those entire organizations based on the negative you find? In my opinion, it is not much better than someone who judges an entire race because they were mugged by one person.
Observer
My point is, if we regard an average Catholic person as a regular resident, or an average Baptist person as a regular resident, it seems that to the open minded person to regard JW’s as a regular people also, and not judge them based on some comparatively little negative that can be found with searching. Also, by comparison, just from the public news, you don’t hear of JW’s in top positions getting away with molesting hundreds of children over 30 years, and ruining untold lives like you hear of in the Catholic faith. If it were true, it would make it in the news. It seems their (JW’s) system of 2 witnesses, even if not liked by some, is at least better then their system. And it does seem like it would reduce instances of people spending decades in jail for being falsely accused by a single little child who wants revenge for being disciplined or who was egged on by a hateful spouse. I personally know of a very good man who was falsely accused of child molestation by his child who was coached by his spouse who was leaving him. She wanted full custody of the children. He spend years in court fighting it before the child matured and admitted lying about it because of his mother. I don’t think that 2 witness system is very bad, as some may say. Even outside of the family situation, many innocent people have spent their entire lives in jail because of the testimony of one girl who claimed he raped her. Maybe not be so hard on the JW’s attempt to protect innocent people. I am sure that if YOU were an innocent person accused of something so bad by one person, you would be happy if his or her single testimony did not tag you as a child molester, a rapist, a murder, etc. or worst, not send you to jail for life. My comments
Observer
Religion is the opiate of the stupid. Wake up!
When you’re talking about “some comparatively little negative” are you taking into account the actual ratios of search results to members?
I don’t think I’m alone in having a tainted view of the Catholic clergy.
While I’m sure the 2-witness system does work well for the accused, I can’t help but wonder how it might squelch the voice of the abused, especially because it’s the voice of a child.
Of course you don’t hear about top-level JWs. Didn’t I already make that point?
Final word to newyorker regarding if I’ll “think more of [myself] one day than just “no one of consequence””…
“INCONCEIVABLE!”
My point about the ratio of child abuse was that, although it exiist among the clergy to an alarming degree, the average Catholic is not regarded as being in a cult or as abnormal. That would include many politicians in the U.S. However, the relatively few cases that some search for and find googling is, many times, used to judge ALL JWs as being in a cult, or abnormal neighbors, as was insinuated in this blog. That smacks of a subconscious prejudice, in my opinion.
Also, please keep in mind that the number of search results do not pan out, in any way, to reflect the number of cases at all. It more so reflects the concern the public has about the problem within each organization.
You are right to be concerned about the abused child, as they can be the most innocent and powerless victim. There is no perfect system of protecting them. That being the case, society can indeed go off balance in efforts to honestly bring justice. Many historical examples. For instance, history shows that 90% of witch hunt victims who were tortured and executed were innocent victims of society. Many at the hands of accusations from children, like at Salem. The 2 witness system could be viewed as a deterrent against that kind of run away injustice.
My point about the hi level JWs is that, although there was a system of hiding hi level Catholic child abuse, that evidently was very effective because many individual cases were successfully hidden for decades until victims grew up, it eventually came out. The same would happen, at least to some degree, for hi level JWs (or Baptists, for that matter) who successfully hid it for decades if it was nearly as rampant. Too many people would be involved to keep it out of the public eye. To assume it is nearly as bad without such exposure, feeling instead that it just havent come out yet, and to judge the entire organization based on such assumption, could be a tint of prejudice against them. Are they that bad to you?
Another thing was the great dancing done by their fearless leaders, the Governing Body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAB0upri3T0