Comments for Brooklyn Heights Blog http://brooklynheightsblog.com Dispatches from America's first suburb Sun, 18 Nov 2018 15:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.2 Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by StudioBrooklynhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570056 Sun, 18 Nov 2018 15:06:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570056 I don’t disagree, and I hope you noticed that I worded my comment very meaningfully differently from the one I was responding to. My overarching point is that there will be unintended consequences of either solution, and we owe it to ourselves as citizens to consider these; perhaps some can be mitigated.

And I do think it’s valid that there is a small, very vocal group of our community that are fervently anti-park (and pro-insularity), for whom the idea of routing the BQE through the park would come in the hopes of deterring visitors, whether they’d be willing to admit it or not.

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Nomcebo Manzinihttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570055 Sun, 18 Nov 2018 14:01:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570055 I am a *serious* BBP user, and I happen to use a portion that brings me close to the “outsiders” and – so far – I’ve had no problems and DEFINITELY am not cavalier about sacrificing ANY lovely green space (& recreational amenities.)

But this is using “NIMBY” as a liberal dog whistle. Somebody (actually many thousands of somebodies) will be affected adversely by this necessary work – whatever path is chosen. I submit that we should look to do the least harm (to all) as possible – as tough as it is to determine that – until/unless the cost gets prohibitively large.

But mostly, arguments like the one voiced here come from people who are ignorant and/or mis-informed. BBP is WIDE at many points – including the basketball courts – they are built OUT over what is essentially RIVER – so that we’re talking about co-existence, not displacement!

… In contrast to 100% displacement probably for close to 10 years for the DOT plan – i.e., X the Promenade; and REPLACE IT with 6 lanes of often crazy heavy traffic.

Sometimes, it’s hard to divine which is “the lesser of 2 evils.” This is NOT such a case, and to pit a Columbia Hts 1 percenter against a kid from East NY is beneath contempt, so transparent is the toxic intent and so far from reality!

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Jorale-manhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570054 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 22:38:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570054 Well, the thing is, engineers tend to be very data-driven but don’t always think about the impact on people’s lives. Yes, it might be cheaper or quicker but the human impact is too detrimental.

What we haven’t seen from the city yet is an impact study on congestion pricing and/or bridge tolls – and how that would mitigate traffic on the BQE. Combine those measures with re-routing to Adams Street, Fourth Ave., and/or Furman, and there might be other ways to tackle this.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570053 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 19:37:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570053 Indeed, from a Brooklyn Heights perspective the Innovative plan is Insane. The problem is, from an engineering, construction and cost perspective, the Innovative plan is not insane, it is in fact, the best solution proposed so far. People must understand this if it is going to be fought effectively. Arguing moot, unsubstantiated points will only waste time and weaken our our position.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570052 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 19:12:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570052 Why, when that’s what you were implying.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570051 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 19:09:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570051 LOL, The report clearly says the entire cantilever structure is in decay, approaching the end of its serviceable life and must be replaced. Being the Promenade is part of that structure, the answer is pretty obvious.

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570050 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 18:57:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570050 The engineering report on the existing condition of the cantilever structure was conducted by an independent firm, not the DOT.

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by StudioBrooklynhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570049 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 03:07:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570049 I think this is a fair argument to make, although I’m a bit more reluctant to ascribe selfish motive where failure to consider the implications of unintended consequences may actually, merely, exist. I suppose it can’t hurt for proponents of routing the BQE through the park to examine that idea for all its hidden linings and messages.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Jorale-manhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570048 Sat, 17 Nov 2018 02:49:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570048 I see your points, and I don’t know the particulars of their financial circumstances or the options in selling. On the same token, there are a lot of 150-year-old buildings that change hands in this city and don’t end up being destroyed in the process. Sellers must have at least some say in who buys a building and what their intended plans are. At any rate, as Andrew Porter says, it makes me glad I live in a landmarked district.

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Love All Brooklynhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570047 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:24:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570047 Why is BBP considered “free game” to the members of the BHA? Is it due to the “rowdy basketball kids that use it”? Is it the fact that the BHA leadership skews 60+ and has no need for roller rinks, soccer fields and playgrounds? Any way you slice it the “park plan” smells elitist and NIMBY beyond belief. Expect massive blowback from the communities that use the park. Not a good PR plan. Pitting groups against each other is a recipe for failure . . .

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Jorale-manhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570046 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:06:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570046 I do appreciate the effort to supply hard facts on what the city’s proposing. Comments threads can easily veer towards misinformation, as you say. It’s just that their “innovative” approach is so completely insane if one really steps back and thinks of what that will entail, that it really doesn’t even merit serious discussion.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Banethttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570045 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:25:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570045 As much as I loved and supported BookCourt at every turn, that’s a pretty harsh assessment. They ran a wonderful store for decades. Eventually, despite working long hours, they were essentially making little profit. And they were getting older.

Jorale-man, If you owned an asset worth $13,000,000 which would you personally choose? Working 60 hours a week to barely scrape by or selling it and conservatively investing your profits to provide a work-free income for life?

I suppose there’s a middle-ground — they could have kept the buildings, continued to live upstairs, and been landlords to whatever business they chose to replace the bookstore. That would likely have provided a decent income and a free place to live without the architectural destruction that’s going on now. But the bookstore would still be gone and they’d still have all the hassles of being a landlord and the owner of an extremely aged building.

Bottom line, I don’t like the result of their decision. And I miss the store. But I understand why they did what they did and I’m fairly sure I and most everyone I know would have made the same heartbreaking decision. :-/

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by gchttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570044 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 15:32:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570044 So, no clear statement in the DOT report that the Promenade needs to be replaced?
Pretty direct question.
How about a direct answer?

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by gchttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570043 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 15:28:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570043 Pretty strong words from someone who is clearly not an attorney.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570042 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 15:04:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570042 If you are referring to me you are wrong. I don’t “want to see that 6-lane highway get built” However, I operate from a perspective of science, logic and deductive reason. So far, I have not seen any viable alternative proposal only uneducated, misinformed, fantasies…
Bottom line, it’s either the Tunnel or we’re gonna have to endure a long rebuild of the cantilever structure. Innovative or Traditional, it will be hell.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570041 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:49:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570041 Are you implying the engineering firm hired by the DOT to assess the condition of the BQE, falsified the report? If so, please provide evidence otherwise, your remarks are just slander.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570040 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:43:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570040 If you can comprehend the report and have a grasp of basic physics, it’s pretty clear.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by MaggieOhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570039 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:39:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570039 thanks for sharing those, Arch. from my reading of the first document it actually says that the promenade structure is in better condition than the ones below because it has a layer of waterproofing that has protected the structure at least from above. my guess is that there are a few things going on here – 1) from a structural engineer’s perspective building the whole thing new from the ground up gives you the most assurance of the whole structure’s capacity and control of its design. that said – structural engineers are notorious over-builders. 2) demolishing the promenade cantilever will make it easier to do all the work below because you’ll have more overhead room. 3) taking the promenade out of service for several years doesn’t impact traffic so it’s an easier sell to the DOT – the impact on local commerce and residents is another story, and one worth clarifying for DOT.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Jorale-manhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570038 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:50:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570038 There are clearly some folks in the neighborhood (commenting here) who want to see that 6-lane highway get built. Maybe they work for construction companies who stand to benefit, or maybe they’re just stirring the pot. But I do have some faith that there’s a growing opposition who can put a stop to it, or at least stall it indefinitely through legal means. The folks on Columbia Heights, among others, aren’t going to watch their homes plummet in value (and perhaps worse) without a fight.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by gchttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570037 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 01:31:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570037 Is there somewhere in all this data where there is a clear statement that the Promenade needs to be replaced? If so, please share that quote with us.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by gchttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570036 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:59:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570036 Thanks for sharing DOT’s advertisement. Gullible doesn’t begin to describe it.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570035 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:50:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570035 https://youtu.be/frweBVvDlW8

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Arch Stantonhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570034 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:39:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570034 Please take a little time to educate yourself.

https://9670f26306f0aa722eb1-bf8a0720b767c6949515361a19a9737f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/uploads/document/document/88/Appendix_D_In-Depth_Bridge_Inspection_Reports__NYCDOT__2016_and_2017_Part_1_of_2.pdf

https://9670f26306f0aa722eb1-bf8a0720b767c6949515361a19a9737f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/uploads/document/document/89/Appendix_D_In-Depth_Bridge_Inspection_Reports__NYCDOT__2016_and_2017_Part_2_of_2.pdf

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Andrew Porterhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570033 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:59:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570033 Are you a member? I am. Do you have any facts to base your statements on? Or are you just trolling us?

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Andrew Porterhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570032 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:58:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570032 The Promenade’s surface was rebuilt several years ago, with new drains—which quickly clogged because of soil and other blockages—and slate and other surfacing.

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by Nomcebo Manzinihttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570031 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:16:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570031 It’s an old adage – and oh so true – that you can’t beat something with nothing. Any BHA meeting with DOT is just a photo-op, … a way for the BHA to amp up the always pointless “We feel your pain!”

A tunnel IS beyond NYC’s resources. A route through Brooklyn Bridge Park IS viable – and almost surely less costly! The BHA needs to throw its weight behind “a contender” – and do it before a disaster.

(Years ago, a portion of I-95 in Connecticut failed. There IS a cost to kicking the can down the road – lives get lost!)

Congestion pricing is probably a great idea … and will have – MAYBE – some impact. But it bumps into the reality that most employers DO NOT SAY to their workforce, “When would YOU like to come to work?” This is not “Black Friday” bargain hunting, where you alter your schedule because there’s an incentive to do so.

BQE traffic is overwhelmingly people trying to make a living in a high priced City. The BHA is playing a nasty NIMBY game here, and make no mistake. They’d rather see 4th Avenue backed up from Bay Ridge to Barclay’s than subject the Heights to what I agree is a terribly disruptive “fix.”

Other commenters point out that our “electeds” are treading water because this is like post-Sandy – you can’t DO NOTHING – and the BHA’s “we’re going to engage some consultants to come up with something” IS just that – a big fat nothing-burger!

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Comment on BHA to Meet With DOT Commissioner on BQE – Promenade Issue by gchttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87460/comment-page-1#comment-570030 Thu, 15 Nov 2018 01:00:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87460#comment-570030 I’m all for the 21st century concept of a tunnel. Unfortunately Kavanagh as well as Jo Anne Simon, who was also in on the conversation, both seem convinced that tunneling is beyond the city’s capabilities.

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Comment on Proposals on the Table for PS/MS8 to Split: Community Meeting Tues 10/30 by BHblogReaderhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87339/comment-page-1#comment-570029 Wed, 14 Nov 2018 23:52:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87339#comment-570029 Pros:
-More total funding for two schools as opposed to one.
-The middle school, being in a separate building as it is, gets an administration and staff more directly focused on it.

Cons:
-The middle school loses the support and established infrastructure of a successful school.
-The existing administration know they’re sticking with the lower school, not the middle school, and have checked out from giving their time and attention to the current middle schoolers.
-The lack of vision or future in the middle school means teachers have been leaving in droves.
-The new middle school has to start a new PTA from scratch, losing out on the shared resources of one of the most well-funded PTAs in the country.
-The lower school students will no longer be guaranteed a seat at the middle school.

If we’re calling a spade a spade, this is to benefit the lower school more, which is where the money has been. The current middle schoolers are getting screwed over in the transition and the incoming middle schoolers to whatever the new school will be have no idea what they’re even signing up for.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Still Herehttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570028 Wed, 14 Nov 2018 22:47:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570028 It was made clear several years ago during the last round of DOT presentations that after the initial penetration testing the Promenade had to be replaced while roadways themselves might be repaired in place.

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Comment on Open Thread Wednesday by Jorale-manhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/87473/comment-page-1#comment-570027 Wed, 14 Nov 2018 22:14:00 +0000 http://brooklynheightsblog.com/?p=87473#comment-570027 Exactly. If they’re just working one lane at a time below, as the non-“innovative” approach proposes, why should the Promenade be affected? And good point about the intentional (?) neglect of its surface. It can be used to strengthen their argument that it all must go now.

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