Comments on: Denis Hamill: IS 293 Student’s Life Saved at LICH Wednesday; Would Likely Have Died if LICH Not Available

By: maribel

maribel — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 02:33:00 +0000

LICH is Open for Care… Everywhere we go people want to know what’s going on. The doctors, nurses and staff are in the community everyday. Wherever we go doors open and we are welcomed. Everyone is concerned that there has been bad management at LICH. It has become transparent to all concerned that the SUNY Board of Trustees has been aggressive against LICH for no reason other than the financial gains it stands to win. The community stands to lose an Institution, serving Brooklyn for over 150 years. A full service hospital with an excellent neuroscience center, emergency unit, intensive care unit, critical care, medical/surgical units, dialysis center and more. Our Brooklyn delegates are in support of LICH. They represent all our communities. Congresswomen Nydia Velasquez attended the recent rally to save LICH. Senator Squadron fought to protect any windfall coming from the future sale of LICH on the senate floor this month. Hundreds marched from Coffey Park in Red Hook. LICH hospital has been used as an ATM. The machine is empty. This week on Fox 5 it was reported that SUNY Downstate has not provided financials. The report futher states financials are needed to see exactly how the hospital is performing. Downtown Brooklyn is growing in leaps and bounds. Together we can rebuild LICH and make it an innovative center for medicine for our families. For history of LICH and current news please visit: http://www.concernedphysicianslich.org. We need your help please call: The Honorable Governor Cuomo 518-474-8390. LICH is Open For Care…

By: Wiley E.

Wiley E. — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:07:00 +0000

You are a failure if you don’t advocate supporting your neighborhood, and your family. Honestly!

By: Jay

Jay — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:43:00 +0000

Try telling that to the child who has just arrested in school in Long Island when the nearest hospital is 15 miles away. Seconds are precious in those cases, you know.

By: BenF

BenF — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:01:00 +0000

Who needs Death Panels– we’ve already got Brooklyn Guy!

By: Rick

Rick — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 17:40:00 +0000

Jay, that is the second time you’ve tried to make a point using an apples and oranges argument.

Long Island has far fewer people per square mile than in New York City.
And it usually takes more time-per-mile for ambulances. So using the
suburbs as an example makes no sense,. In NYC we need more hospitals
closer together to get the efficacy that places out of the city can get
with fewer hospitals.

By: Jay

Jay — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:34:00 +0000

Maybe those of you who are terrified of not having LICH due to not being located in a close proximity to a trauma center should move closer to one.

I guess you guys can’t live on Long Island or any other area that is not convenient as NYC where access to such facilities is often several miles away.

By: Nick

Nick — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 05:48:00 +0000

Jay a.k.a. Brooklyn Guy, call Dr. Lewis Goldfrank, the preeminent Director of Bellevue Hospital’s ER and ask him the impact of not having a Level 1 Trauma Center in Manhattan south of 59th Street for 3 months. Your statement/rhetorical ? that people die in car crashes and aviation accidents…should we outlaw [them] is illogical and absurd. LICH had the best mix of insured/uninsured patients in Brooklyn, serves an economically thriving and growing community. Northshore/LIJ made a reasonable offer to take over LICH, but SUNY rejected it and failed to negotiate in good faith as they only want a land grab to solve their own years of mismanagement prior to taking over LICH. The Supreme Court Judge is requesting forensic accounting and relevant discovery to unravel their plan.

By: Jay

Jay — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 03:48:00 +0000

Do you have documentation of these trauma cases? Where are your stats coming from?

People die in car crashes and aviation accidents. Should be outlaw those transportation services? Just like with anything, there are inherent risks and benefits. I say spend money more wisely on other health care services.

By: NotBrooklynGuy

NotBrooklynGuy — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 02:20:00 +0000

“Manhattan has survived” what makes you a soothsayer on the outcomes of trauma cases when Bellevue was closed and the first Level 1 Trauma Center from Battery Park north was Cornell on 68th and York….frankly, you’re talking out your rectum

By: Rick

Rick — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 01:04:00 +0000

“St Vincent’s closed…Manhattan has survived that.”
Yes, except for the people who died because it closed.
“Brooklyn will survive.”
Yes, except for the people who will die if it closes.

As Nick points out, LICH has been grossly mismanaged. But that is no reason to close it, but rather a reason to fix it. That happens all the time as evidenced by businesses that were failing badly but were fixed, like Ford, FedEx, Disney, Apple and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Proper management brought them back, the same needs to be done for LICH.

But that of course ignores the fact that hospitals should not be viewed merely as businesses, but as vital services. The loss of a hospital is much more serious that the loss of a KFC. So the prospect of such a loss deserves more than a defeatist and callous attitude like the one that would say “deal with it”.

By: Jack D

Jack D — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 23:09:00 +0000

Nick–you are delusional if you do not think a hospital is a business. Your entire last post highlights poor BUSINESS organization. Hospitals are centers for healing and such, but in the end it IS a business. It offers health care services.

By: HeightsResident

HeightsResident — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 22:04:00 +0000

‘realist’? Really. I would argue you are a fool.

By: Nick

Nick — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 22:00:00 +0000

Indeed, an extra 30 minutes does make a difference if the sudden cardiac arrest is due to AMI or, in a small subset of pediatric patients, congenital cardiac channelopathies, including LQTS. Emergency cardiac cath with reperfusion and therapeutic hypothermia, both available at LICH, are essential treatments. But this argument digresses from the facts; the State Audit identified gross mismanagement and huge deficits at SUNY and only a $4M operating loss at LICH the fiscal year before SUNY took over. They paid huge consulting fees for cost savings were never implemented, entered into a costly contract with Continuum for billing, telecom and other services and then failed to bill and collect properly. They then lied about discussions relating to the real estate sale, and a Supreme Court judge has twice ruled against SUNY, with discovery documents now requested to prove their inaccurate financial statements. A hospital is not a ‘business’, and LICH, while imperfect, was far from ‘failing’.

By: Peds MD

Peds MD — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 20:01:00 +0000

Wow. I am a pediatrician in private practice. The report is kind of dramatic…as are the TV advertisements. But that is the point…to pull on the heart strings of the communities. Change the story to an EMT bringing in someone to LICH who had a femoral fracture…does that have the same effect? No, it clearly doesn’t.

The EMTs saved this kid’s life. If LICH wasn’t open, the kid would have been brought to another nearby hospital. The child was already stabilized by the EMTs. The extra 30 min or an hour likely would not have made a different. Then again, I am not a cardiologist.

This argument is futile. Nobody is denying that LICH has saved lives. The fact that it has saved lives does not translate into keeping a failing business open.

Also, I have a pediatrician for over 20 years. Who says clinical death?

By: Nick

Nick — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 18:45:00 +0000

It’s time to renew your ACLS card. That’s Advanced Cardiac Life Support, if you forgot from residency days. I’m not surprised that a fellow physician arrogantly proclaims a lay reporter is dramatic. The child was saved by EMS, stabilized at LICH and will survive clinical death and make a full recovery. Spout your half baked theories on sudden cardiac arrest and hospital closings to the parents of this child with a straight face, and then surrender your license.

By: MK

MK — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 18:37:00 +0000

You, too. Perhaps you just realized that you weren’t making any sense. Good for you.

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 18:20:00 +0000

Good bye and good luck MK!

By: MK

MK — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 18:12:00 +0000

That’s great…but you make no sense. Again, pay attention.

All NYC hospitals aren’t being closed. We are talking about 1 hospital here. The original poster was not only speaking about LICH. Do you not understand this?

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 17:54:00 +0000

Just to mention a few — here is a list of some of the hospitals NYC has lost:

Parkway Hospital
Mary Immaculate
St. Johns (Queens)
Peninsula Hospital Center
Victory Memorial
Brooklyn Hospital Center, Caledonian Div.
St. Mary’s Brooklyn
St. Vincent’s (Manhattan)
Fordham
Cabrini

By: MK

MK — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 16:41:00 +0000

I think you are making gross generalizations. The original poster was talking about LICH, and only LICH. Where did he/she mention closing “all our city hospitals”? The point is that one less hospital is not gonna make or break our city’s healthcare system. Yes, the state of healthcare, in general, sucks. Hospitals close, other hospitals expand. Just like any other business.

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:50:00 +0000

So, if you can’t always prevent hospitalization why close all our city hospitals? I don’t think that calling that stance “ludicrous” is either accurate or commendable.

By: MK

MK — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:14:00 +0000

LOL. I think he/she realizes that you cannot always prevent hospitalization. That point you are making is ludicrous. I think everybody knows that for a fact. However, I agree that with such a closure, more focus should be placed on preventative medicine, health maintenance, and such so that one can reduce the risk of strokes, heart attacks, diabetes, and other costly chronic issues that contribute to expensive hospitalizations that drain our systems.

Our nabe will survive this closure.

By: BrooklynGuy

BrooklynGuy — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:10:00 +0000

Of course I said it…I don’t deny a hospital is important. But institutions close. St Vincent’s closed…Manhattan has survived that.

You are acting as if the world will end with this specific hospital closure. Brooklyn will survive.

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 14:46:00 +0000

You just said it — vital parts of communities close all the time — schools, hospitals, fire stations!

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 14:44:00 +0000

You are soooooooooooo wrong on so many counts. How many hospitals does Brooklyn and the rest of NYC have to lose? You CAN NOT always prevent hospitalization. I know that personally for a fact. How much money do you stand to make if LICH closes?

By: BrooklynGuy

BrooklynGuy — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:44:00 +0000

LICH IS a failing business. No matter what the cause or who it was “ripped off” by, it is failing. Healthcare is moving towards outpatient/urgent care facilities…not in-patient care. As such, there needs to be more primary care providers and urgent care centers that practice primary care to prevent hospitalization (e.g. the urgent care center that is opening on Atlantic Ave). Brooklyn lost Victory Memorial Hospital awhile ago…that area seems to be doing fine.

Yes, it is a loss for the community, but the community will have to deal. It’s life. We deal with other losses vital to our survival.

To clarify also, people seem to harp on the fact that LICH is located in an affluent neighborhood and that is why it should be doing well. The community is actually serves is not the Cobble Hill/Boerum/Heights residents. They make up a minority of the people that are treated at LICH.

By: Remsen Street Dweller

Remsen Street Dweller — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:03:00 +0000

To BrooklynGuy: LICH is not a failing business. It is a community hospital that was ripped off first by Continuum Health Partner, now SUNY. Which hospital(s) are you affiliated with?

And, another thing, people don’t just need ERs and emergency treatment, they need hospitals — as a physician you know that. I’m surprised at your attitude.

By: A Neighbor

A Neighbor — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:00:00 +0000

It’s a failing business — because it has been badly run by amateurs for years. It does not follow that because a bunch of non-professionals have run it into the ground it should be closed. Yes, hospitals are a challenge to operate in the black, but all kinds of hospitals do it. LICH has one of the best payor populations in the borough.

By: gc

gc — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:45:00 +0000

“In case of emergency I’d rather be brought to a hospital in Manhattan … honestly.” Sounds like a good plan BrooklynGuy except the ambulance doesn’t ask where you want to be brought. You will be going on a 10 or 20 minute ride into Brooklyn not Manhattan.

By: MD

MD — Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:24:00 +0000

The widespread placement of paramedic services in neighborhoods can accomplish similar dramatic saves. The presence of a hospital/MD for that kind of case is not essential. That said: Less money spent on bombs/war and more spent on medical care/schools/libraries/arts and we could legitimately call ourselves civilized.