Brooklyn Heights resident and real estate broker Donald Brennan files this guest post:
After reading the ‘Real Deal on Watchtower Properties’ post here last week I got to thinking – a billion dollars, for 25 properties, where did that number come from? While I am aware of the impeccable condition of these properties, inside and out, my initial reaction was – that’s crazy! Isn’t it? Maybe not.
In order to get a feel for what the estimated billion dollar price tag relates to in a more tangible metric I set out to determine the price per square foot for the portfolio. I broke the properties down into three general categories – non-residential, residential and residential development – determined the approximate size of each property and derived a dollar per square foot value for each category based on recent comparable market transactions and the Watchtower’s own transaction record of previously owned properties. The blended per square foot price works out to $260, which sounds low, doesn’t it? So while we are in the middle of one of the biggest deleveraging cycles ever, the $1 Billion estimate may be understated.
So if market conditions do improve the portfolio may be worth more than a billion dollars. And if there isn’t any improvement, well then they are still sitting on $1,000,000,000 of prime Brooklyn real estate. Not the worst thing.
Brooklyn Heights resident and broker Donald Brennan hosts informal real estate discussions at his home on the third Tuesday of each month. The next session is August17. Visit his website to RSVP and for more information.
For a religion that believes in the imminent end of the world, they sure did make some really smart long-term real estate investments.
The sales of ALL these properties will change Brooklyn Heights for the better. I have my eye on a house with a garage in the north Heights, prime real estate in perfect condition and the garage makes this unusual property even more desirable. I recently wrote Watchtower, the owner of this parcel a letter offering a good price and the ability to close within 30 days of an inspection report. I have not had a response, yet. I do not know if this house is for sale but for the cost of a stamp I figured what the heck? I will keep you posted.
I remember what a dump the Bossert Hotel was before Watchtower bought this — think of all of the business on Montague Street is this was sold and filled with residents who shop?
It’s most unfortunate that a cult chose a successful neighborhood like Brooklyn Heights as their holy land.
Yes, upper management seems to have a much different agenda (hint: $$$) from their Armageddon-embracing foot soldiers!
Yes, unlike ordinary residents of Brooklyn Heights, the Watchtower is highly self-sufficient from their upstate farms, dining halls, clothing donated by other members, etc. They are a real loss for our local businesses! (What do you expect when the average J.W. lives off a $100/month stipend? He/she won’t be shopping or dining on Montague Street very often.)
It wasn’t as successful a neighborhood back in the 60s when they first started buying land here and building stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Squibb building that now has the Watchtower sign on it was considered a “distressed” property back then. Now it is probably worth zillions.
Nope – will not change it for the better. Will be more people, more hustle and bustle, more cars, traffic and crime.
As I rolled up the ramp at the north end of the Promenade the other day, I overheard two JWs talking. One was explaining to the other one that all of the floors of the building were dramatically slanted due to settling. I think he also surmised that this change in the building happened after the Promenade & BQE were built. Although I do not know exactly which building he was referencing, this would definitely affect the pricing.
But what is Faith without the bucks to back it up?
I wonder what the value is of their entire real estate portfolio – not just the Brooklyn Heights piece – and how it is diversified geographically. Wonder if it is over allocated to Bk Heights? Or if they care.
Off topic – just saw the building down at Pier 1 completely demolished. Nothing is left of it but a pile of rubble. I wonder if there is asbestos or any other hazardous material left in the remains that will spread all over the neighborhood. Thoughts, ideas, action?
It is new york city building code that prior to the demolition of a building all asbestos must be abated. You might remember that a couple of months passed between when the demolition of these buildings was announced and when it actually was visible. What was going on during that time period was asbestos abatement – erefore there should be no asbestos in that rubble.
Wow! Why am I not surprised? That’s what all the 10% tithing members are required to contribute gets them! And that’s $1Billion+ in Brooklyn Heights alone.
I asked exact same question a few months back and didn’t get any response. I hope that jora-lemon is correct about the abatement process.
People who have lived in this neighborhood since the 60′s offer a different perspective on the Watchtower properties here. Over many years when the real estate market in the city — and Brooklyn Heights — was really weak and buildings here could be had for a song, the Watchtower was a buyer, helping keep BH prices up — and improving conditions in the neighborhood. As a result, properties weren’t as likely to be abandoned or converted into rooming houses — and stripped of detail. Also, when the Watchtower bought a property, they fixed up the buildings and maintained them well — a la the Bossert.
this is why it irks me that the new PS8 annex has less than 10 new classrooms. there could be hundreds.. thousands of families moving in in the next 5 years… where will those kids go to school?
doesn’t matter .. half these buildings will be become dorms.
Hey, Ben why don’t you splurge out and scoop up all JW properties. Then once you are in control you may even want to consider renaming the neighborhood to something like BENsonhurst
Let’s hope that all of it (asbestos) was gone before they demolished the building…
Where did you get the 10%? Witnesses do not tithe, they don’t even pass a collection plate at their services. All monetary giving is voluntary!
I can envision the nabe becoming a bit more diversified, so to speak – there’s the potential for thousands of housing units coming on the market, and rest assured, there will be demands that a certain percentage be set aside for “affordable housing”. The City could also end up purchasing and redeveloping one or more of those behemoth office buildings into senior or low income housing – with Fed insistence and aid (FHA) of course.
The return of the “welfare hotel” might be in BH’s future.
I’m native born here since the 50s, and I couldn’t disagree with you more.
The Watchtower exploited a weak housing market (NYC mismanagement/corruption) to turn residential buildings into dormitories for themselves.
The Watchtower evicted the tenants from apartment buildings they bought, before laws prevented them from doing so!
You claim the Watchtower saved buildings from being abandoned & turned into rooming houses? As if no one else would want to buy an “abandoned” building on Columbia Heights or Willow Street? Are you kidding me?
The only reason the Watchtower didn’t strip all their buildings of detail was the Landmarks Preservation Commission! (Just look at the highrise junk they built on Columbia Hts between Orange & Pinapple Sts. before Landmarks.)
As if only the Watchtower could have “saved” a prime building like the Bossert (and turned it into their dormitory) ???
Is being under religious/cult coercion really voluntary?
So Brooklyn Heights owes it’s success as a neighborhood to the Watchtower “buying land here & building stuff”??? I don’t think so!
Yes. All religions say it’s voluntary to tithe. But the money comes from somewhere. The biggest landowners and property owners in the world are the various religions. Kind of makes you wonder.
Let’s not forget that missions are required, or at least highly “recommended”, to recruit or raise money for the church. That’s “voluntary” labor at no cost to the church on the part of it’s parishioners.
The Witnesses sell for tip top dollar. The city does not. There is no chance the city will buy any of these buildings. In fact, the city has SOLD local buildings like Poplar Police Station for very little money.
There will be no demands for affordable housing. The city can’t just jump into a private sale and demand a certain percentage be set aside for senior or affordable housing.
To add some controversy: this is partly the legacy of the Mitchell-Lama protesters. There was a public/private partnership to create affordable housing. But when the term ran out, and residents freaked out that they only got 15 or 20 years of below-market rent and dragged everyone thru court, private developers said, never again.
Isn’t your real beef with the city’s alleged mismanagement and the free market, and not with the Witnesses. What specifically did they do that was illegal? Your own statement proves my point “The Watchtower evicted the tenants from apartment buildings they bought, before laws prevented them from doing so!”. From my viewpoint, they made an informed decision and bought properties which then appreciated dramatically. That is called the marketplace.
In terms of the preservation of buildings by the Witnesses, it is undeniable that they did a good job with the Bossert. That building was more than sketchy for many years and simply rolling by the location gave me the creeps. I am glad that they had deep pockets and cleaned it up. Anybody could have bought the property and cleaned it up, but they didn’t.
And, as to whether they are cult, one could make that accusation of practically any religion or extreme political groups. The libertarians virtually worship Ayn Rand. Are they also a cult? Whether we like, understand or want to be a member of their group is irrelevant.
My beef is against NYC gov’t & the Witnesses!
Just because the half-baked law allowed these “god-loving” folks to evict long-time residents, they were compelled to take advantage & actually do this? (Ever hear of morals, ethics, & decency?)
Moreover, should we assume a cult that preaches the virtues of Armageddon to attract the weak-minded & desperate, while their “leaders” are major real-estate players, don’t also engage in other dishonest activities, including shady real estate dealings with the City?
Furthermore, the Bossert could have & should have been turned into housing people in our city need, not dormitories for cultists from far away, who pay no taxes & choose to remain apart from the neighborhood.
Lastly, since no other religion bought up almost half my neighborhood, under false pretenses of Armageddon no less, my beef is indeed with the Watchtower & the City gov’t that allowed them to run amok here.
(I didn’t even mention the very suspicious Hotel Margaret fire, in which the landmark building was razed, days before the first co-op tenants were to start moving in. Next thing I knew, a modern building went up & was quickly bought by the J.W.s for yet another dormitory.)
Are you proposing that government get into the religion verification and regulation of business? The first clause of the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. I think that the Supreme Court would not endorse your proposal. If you want to take away the tax free status from all religions, that at least would have a chance at passing constitutional muster.
I have this funny thing about not having people question my beliefs and it only seems to offer the same in return.
Its plain that Obama commenter has a axe to grind, and that he buys into the “conspiracy theory” of the scared, misinformed, and the I don’t care about the facts, just give me the knee jerk quote, so i can slam them and keep my opinion’ crowd. The same crowd that was willing to jump on Mrs Sherrod, as a rascist w/o the whole quote, because they had their agenda in place, despite facts to the contrary. It doesn’t matter how much good, they may do, as in NO ONE in the heights was ever robbed, raped or threatened by all those Bible toting, clean cut WT people!
Lisa, you are so misinformed. Don’t know who you are talking to, but I think you are getting JW’s and Mormons mixed up. JW’s do not go on a “mission.” Jw’s literature is distributed at no charge. There is no solicitation to raise money for the church.
When I worked for QUICK FROZEN FOODS, a trade magazine, in the 1960s and early 70s, National Cold Storage was an advertiser. They were a national chain of cold storage warehouses in Brooklyn, New Jersey, Chicago and elsewhere, primarily devoted to the storage of frozen foods. I would imagine rather than having asbestos in the buildings, they were built with massive piping systems for refrigeration, and very thick walls for insulation.
BH could be changed forever if the JW leave and are replaced by hundreds of stroller pushing Manhattanite type parenets – great, just the type of people I try to avoid.
But perhaps more worrisome, I wonder if NYU could look to buy some of the JW properties and turn these properties into student dorms given NYU is scheduled to become on of the largest landowners in Metro Tech. So, we could ultimately end up with white shirt-clad sober cultists replaced by over-entitled drunk rude kids. Welcome to the worst of the Village in BH.
Into the fire from the pan….
I wonder what a couple of million square feet of additional condo and co-op space would do to property values in BH?
I tried to post this comment last night, but my computer had indigestion and decided not to cooperate.
When I was in college I shared an apartment off campus with some friends. One afternoon the doorbell rang and, since I was expecting a delivery, I shouted “come in”. As I rolled to the door, there were two JW s standing there. I figured it was a potentially interesting situation so I politely listened to their pitch. After a few minutes I offered to make a small contribution of a dollar or two for the materials. When they asked me whether it would be okay to return again, I said yes and gave them my roommate’s name, who was also in a wheelchair, as my own. When they came back a few days later and asked for Wally, it was really quite funny! I figured they would fall into the “all people in wheelchairs look alike” category and they did. Great times!
@pacemanstl:
You believe there are no such things as conspiracies?
Also, “NO ONE in the heights was ever robbed, raped or threatened by all those Bible toting, clean cut WT people!”
Even worse, the J.W.s rob, rape, & threaten people’s minds with cultist propaganda!
@the commish:
“J.W.s don’t solicit to raise money for the church.” Surely you jest.
@T.K. Small:
Are they a religion or a real estate company?
Robyn,
I can not afford to buy the Watchtower real estate portfolio I can buy a home, with a garage. This parcel is near Harry Chapin Playground where young children will play. I LOVE this house and I have not seen the interior yet. It is my hope for a response to my inquiy soon or I may just walk over and drop in on a few of the Watchtower big shots – bring my checkbook with me. I would not care to live in BENsonhust but i would like my name on something in Brooklyn Heights? Is there a park that needs renovation? Any ideas where I could put some money Robyn? To get my name up like Harry Chapin I would spend a few bucks. What is the name of that park under the Promemade is it Squibb Park?
My best wishes to you Robyn.
Ben
As a former member of this religion it makes me incredibly frustrated to see people with absolutely no idea about the inner workings of the Watchtower and their doctrine, defend them.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses are a high control fundamentalist Christian cult. Members are constantly manipulated and emotionally blackmailed by way of social pressure and controlling Watchtower meetings and literature. They are kept in a constant state of anticipation and often dread over ‘imminent Armageddon’ and are made to feel that their making it through is dependent (among many things) on the amount of time and effort they put into pushing the Watchtower’s literature – in the streets, door to door, at work, at school and so on.
They are strongly encouraged NOT to pursue education beyond High School (collage is sometime acceptable, but university is heavily frowned upon and wouldn’t be without consequence in the Org) and many Witnesses take up menial jobs to support themselves while Pioneering (full time preaching/literature pushing) – window-cleaning is a Witness favourite.
While the Witnesses are told that they must look happy and be polite so as to give a good impression of the Organisation (and not to ‘bring reproach of Jehovah’s name’ = possibly not make it through Armageddon!), mental disorders such a major depression are rampant, and no wonder!
Witnesses are made to feel it is their duty to contribute money and support the preaching work. They go on ‘quick builds’, which means that the members build the Halls (their churches) for free! Free labor, free everything! The average JW members will never be paid for the work they do for the Watchtower, even those that work in the printing houses full time. They get room and board and a little allowance.
Trust me, the Watchtower are RAKING it in! And discovering that the high-ups are sitting all all this real-estate, doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I am not defending the Witnesses, as I am simply pointing out that government cannot pick and choose between religions which are more acceptable. That is why I posted the relevant portion of the First Amendment.
There are those that would argue that all religion is coercive and manipulative. Since you were on the inside, obviously you know more than me and I take your statement sincerely. But we live in a free society. Presumably people joined of their own free will and presumably they can also leave when they want. After all, you left.
Liberty and freedom are sometimes messy propositions. But I would much rather live in a society that allows people to make those decisions for themselves, however questionable.
@ Gemma Penn:
“people with absolutely no idea about the inner workings of the Watchtower and their doctrine, defend them” …
Yes, & the cult also has propagandists/shills who play endless devil’s advocate with critics, some who may have written above.
Btw, no on even touched upon the J.W.s’ ruthless practice of “shunning” those who choose to leave the cult, in which husbands may never be allowed to speak with their wives again, children with their parents, lifelong friends with each other, etc.! Sickening!
@ T.K. Small:
What about a religion that’s clearly a front for a lucrative real estate operation? Why did the Watchtower risk buying “distressed” residential properties in Brooklyn Heights when they could’ve easily housed their workers much more efficiently elsewhere, like on their sprawling upstate NY farms? It’s just a buy low, sell high scam they’ve been pulling.
Obama?: I can assure you that I am not a Watchtower propagandist/shill. If your comment was directed at me, you have compromised your credibility and anyone who knows me would find your assertion comical. I have a well-earned reputation for being principled, clearheaded and reasonable.
I will answer your questions after you answer mine. Do you want government to regulate and control religion?
@T.K. Small:
Seems like your goal all along was to “compromise my credibility”, which curiously is also a goal of propagandists/shills. Just a coincidence, I guess.
How about we at least look into taxing obvious sham religions/cults who parlay dubious real estate dealings into enormous fortunes???
“But we live in a free society. Presumably people joined of their own free will and presumably they can also leave when they want. After all, you left.”
With a legitimate religion, yes. With a cult like the The Watchtower, no. The door is there, but to walk through it holds so many consequences that many Witnesses choose to suffer in the religion rather than leave.
One of the many ways the Watchtower use to force it’s members to stay, even if they wish to leave, is shunning. If a baptised Jehovah’s Witness wishes to leave, they can only do so by being disfellowshiped. This means that any and all family and friends that remain in the religion are forbidden from having any contact with that person ever again. A person’s entire family may be Witnesses and if they leave, they will never be able to see or talk to them again (unless they return, repentant, to the religion) and the family is forced to shun them, not allowed to even acknowledge their existence if they pass them on the street. Fathers and mothers shun children, children shun parents, friends shun friends. And since Witnesses are discouraged from making friends outside of the religion, they are often left with nothing and no one if they leave.
Not to mention the psychological trauma of being constantly reminded that the horrific fiery deaths of billions of people, as well as your own, could be the very next day, unless you remain a Witness where you at least MIGHT be safe (there are still no guarantees if you haven’t been doing your best).
So should the government be able to control legitimate religions? No. Should the government be able to monitor cults and sham religions, disallowing them tax exempt status and putting a cap on the amount of property they are allowed to amass from the work and money of their manipulated, overworked and unpaid members? YES, definitely.
Problem–Reaction–Solution
Problem–Brooklyn Heights has hotels that have become rundown SROs & filled by City agencies with “undesirables.” Oh my!
Reaction–We must do something about this! But alas, what can be done?
Solution–”Dump” them on the Watchtower at a fraction of what they’re worth! Those clean-cut Witnesses will rid us of the unsavory “undesirables” & make those worthless buildings look spiffy-new again! God bless those Witnesses, they’re so diligent & wholesome!
So who’s to mind years later when those deserving Witnesses make enormous profits on those once “distressed” properties!? God love them!
The anatomy of a scam.
How much money do you think Watchtower wants for the Bossert? I would like to have my brother and sister in law buy this property and rent apartments to tenants with a stipulation that they shop Brooklyn Heights, dine at Brooklyn Heights estabilishmnets, use Brooklyn Heights practionioners. This is an idea that my family had discussed at length – offer affordable, but not cheap, apartments to neighbors who are community partners – perhaps each House of Worship here in the Heights could fill 5 apartments with tenants, BHA, and Heights & Hill Community Council. If the Bossert Hotel could be purchased for under 20 million dollars I think this plan could happen.
I vaguely recall that the deal to buy the Bossert a couple of years ago was for $100MM (actually not so vague, see http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20080505/FREE/215086780 )
Even with the real estate market complications, I’d expect it to go for $80-$100MM again if/when they put it on the market.
Lisa – Sorry to break it to you, but JW’s are not tithed or required to donate money at all. Check your own church for that particular policy.
Oh and Obama? – Have you considered maybe getting a life? Just wondering. Try it out sometime, it’s pretty neat. It keeps you from making yourself look like a fool.
Rod – JWs are cult. Wake up dude.Seriously.
Obama?- It really is sad to read how much you hate these people.
A few things I would like to bring to your attention though.
First, the WT started to buy property in BH in 1909 and bought more as they grew. Was it a money grabbing scheme even back then? If so I think they deserve credit for having that kind of foresight.
Second, it is truly shocking that you would put the crimes of rape and murder in such a light context. It really does expose your true motives and even your own moral compass.
Third, you obviously don’t know what a cult is. If you did you would realise that the RC are more of a cult than the WT. They follow a man…the pope..who does the WT follow? Do they have a leader…I’ve never read anything about the WT having one person they follow.
Fourth, if a person wants to leave being a witness they can walk out the door and never come back. If that is their choice. The only way out is not by means of disfellowshipping. A person can just leave. If their family decides to not speak to them…well that’s their choice.
Fifth, as part of their tax exemption it would be unethical for them to rent for profit units within their new premises.
Lastly, the main reason for the WT is moving according to what I have read is because they feel it is the most cost effective since they can use their donated funds more wisely by, for example, paying lower electricity rates outside the city. Isn’t that how a responsibly charity should operate? Use the donated money in the most prudent way.
I know nothing that I have written above will have any effect on your thinking, but I just felt if you must hate, you should at least be an informed hater. Otherwise you’re just an ignorant ass.
JW’s do everything by committee. They aren’t gonna sell that house to you with only your check book. Plus they are very shroud, if you are offering to purchase the place and it is not even for sale, they will put it up for sale.
All JW Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls in the United States are owned by a local non-profit. Each congregation or group of congregations form a local non-profit that the membership rotates so no one individual can own the property, but also, if there is something illegal that happens on the grounds or by a representative the main organization now called Christian Congregation’s of Jehovah’s Witnesses will hold no legal liability.
Now this is the good part: The JW leadership instructs (in writing) all congregations or groups of (which really are only certain elders and traveling or zone overseers [some of those names have been changed also to avoid legal liability] many of who live on the grounds in residences attached to the Kingdom Hall or Assembly Hall ) congregations to include a paragraph in the charter (or whatever the legal term is for the rules of the non-profit corporation) that if for some reason that non-profit is dissolved or dismantled the property is deeded to whatever JW non-profit corporation they are using at the time. The non-profit is essentially a holding company.
That is how they finance their construction projects. Their lending non-profit lends to their legally unaffiliated local non-profits (congregations which builds/remodels Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls).
The really sad thing is that all of this is financed almost exclusively by the everyday JWs who are strongly encouraged to complete “anonymous” financial survey’s to determine the ability of the congregation i.e. individual JWs ability to repay the loans.
If the attendance goes down or if they are insolvent they dissolve the congregation and merge it with another. It is virtually unheard-of that the JW corporations forgive the loans of the poor, especially rural and inner city congregations. Just like any good and large non-profit they have instructions on planned giving, installment giving and bequeathing – especially property to their religious non-profit corporation.
The even sadder part is that most of these donations are coming from the working poor and retired who were discouraged from pursuing higher education since the 1970s and therefore are often the hardest hit in economic distress (which the leaders suggest is part of the composite sign of the end of days and uses circular reasoning to discourage higher education and a better social economic position – trade school is ok because it doesn’t teach critical thinking, only hard skills that the JW can use to volunteer building or remodeling more buildings, unless of course it is an electrical or mechanical engineering degree).
The JW leadership is making a smart and entity sustaining choice by selling high in NYC and moving upstate because their increasingly poor membership.
Based on that, the JWs are in effect probably the second or fourth largest religious/non-profit land/building owner in the world. Behind the Roman Catholic church, LDS (Mormans) or Scientologist. It is probably though the largest religious non-profit corporation with a substantial lending arm.
The JWs though are a lot smarter, they have many non-profit corporations (internally they call them legal entities) setup so they don’t go the way of the Roman Catholic church and lose sexual misconduct lawsuits. Plus they are much more effective at marketing and PR.
I attribute all of this consolidated knowledge to the fact that only selected leaders and children of selected leaders are encouraged to pursue degree’s and advanced degree’s.